DarkLordOfOptics
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Guns, Optics, 2nd Amendment and resisting the Left in everything they touch.
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Starter Precision.

Last Sunday, I visited on the SlavGuns livestream and the conversation turned to QC issues with riflescopes and on what people should get if they are on a budget.

This all started when it turned out that out of the several Arken scopes SlavGuns received, half had problems.

Despite that, he tried to make an argument that these scopes offer a lot for the money IF you get a good one, especially if you are not shooting all that far away or for newer shooters that might not have the skills to see the flaws come out, etc. He was making a case that all the features you get for comparatively little money make it worth it (if I misinterpreted what he said, I'll post a correction).

I disagree with that profoundly. If the fundamentals of a riflescope are compromised, it does not matter how feature-rich it is. The scope has to stay zeroed. It has to have a reasonable reticle. Turrets have to track.

Twenty years ago, if you were starting out with precision shooting, you got a 308Win boltgun of some sort (Remington was still OK; Savage was pretty decent), a single piece picatinny rail, a pair of TPS rings and a SWFA SS 10x42 scope for $300. The optic did not have a lot of frills, but it held and it tracked. The image quality is good enough and it is still $300 https://swfa.com/swfa-10x42-ss-mil-quad-reticle-30mm-1-mil-clicks-rear-focus/
I still have one of these, for what it is worth, along with the more expensive 10x42HD that sits on an inexpensive 308Win boltgun (a Yugo Mauser action with ER Shaw barrel).

That setup could get you pretty damn far. After some amount of practice, you could easily figure out if it was holding you back and upgrade accordingly. That general concept still holds true, but we have other reliable options.

In the modern market, if a fixed power scope is not your thing, we have several options that are rather tried and true. At the bottom of this post are links to a bunch of reasonably well worked out designs that have developed a reputation for holding up.

They are, mostly, made in China by experienced OEMs and I listed options from $450 to around $1k. It is not an exhaustive list, but from what I have seen, all of these have fairly solid fundamentals and a varying feature set.

If you are a new shooter and this is your first foray into precision shooting, you should be looking for a design that has a reputation for reasonable durability. The minimum feature set is pretty simple: FFP reticle, exposed turrets that track for at least 10mrad or so, side focus, magnification range that tops out somewhere in the 15x to 30x range.

Reticle preferences are in the eye of the beholder, but going for something super complex is usually a bad idea.

You want a reasonable eyebox. Illumination is nice to have, but not critical at this stage. Zero stop is a good idea, but not strictly speaking critical if you are trying to stay on budget.

The SWFA at $300 is still the cheapest option. However, Element Helix FFP 6-24x50 and Vortex Venom 5-25x56 are around $500 along with a few others.

They are supported by good companies. They have been made for different brands (same OEM) in large quantities. They generally hold up.

If one fails, the company will support you. If this is more than you can afford, look for a used one. With solid companies backing the product, it is a pretty safe bet.

Does that mean noone should be buying from brands like Arken and Discovery? not at all. I wish them well and as their improve, I hope they will force everyone else to compete in lower prices. However, if you are new at this, go for the tried and true. You should be spending your time and money on developing skills and experience, not on test driving riflescopes.

If you have been at it for a while, know what you are doing and are trying to scope a dozen or so rifles, Arken is worth a look. At this stage, you can probably diagnose problems. You are likely not looking to spend Tangent Theta money on every one of your rifles. If you are just playing with one of your rifles go nuts on Arken or something along those lines. It is not a ton of money. If it goes down, you are not left high and dry without a rifle. If you get a good one, you'll have a blast with it. If you get a bad one, you have other options.

What would I do if I were starting out again?
It is very hard to argue against Vortex Venom 5-25x56 on a Tikka T3x of some sort chambered for 6.5Creed.
If I wanted a more crossover design, a 3-18x44 Strike Eagle is a good choice.

In all truthfulness, I would probably look for a discounted Burris XTR3i 3.3-18x50 and use it for everything.

If money truly is tight, SWFA fixed power is still king.

Vortex Venom 5-25x56 https://bit.ly/4769sYq
Element Helix 6-24x50 https://bit.ly/46H3ZYD
Vortex Diamondback Tactical 4-16x44 https://bit.ly/3rZ71bB
SwampFox Warhawk 4-20x50 https://bit.ly/3FuFXUL
Vortex Strike Eagle 3-18x44 https://bit.ly/3tOI03l
Athlon Helos BTR Gen2 2-12x42 https://bit.ly/40i1ABe
Primary Arms GLx 3-18x44 https://bit.ly/3kkmtLk
Burris RT-25 5-25x56 https://bit.ly/3Sf56dx
Burris XTR3i 3.3-18x50 https://bit.ly/3XVF8Ld
Meopta Optika6 5-30x56 for $799 https://bit.ly/3Fwlj6t
Meopta Optika5 3-18x50 https://bit.ly/3DFXXe4

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Vortex Defender XL Green

This is the second time Vortex' Defender XL crosses my path. I was very impressed with the original red dot version, so I was curious to see how the one with the green dot works for my eyes.
To get the details, see the attached video.
The cliff's notes version is that I am just as impressed with this one. In terms of collimation quality and parallax control, it is quite exceptional.
https://alnk.to/881BEV1

00:10:20
Primary Arms HTX-1 US Made red dot sight

I've had this RDS for a bit over two months now and I am beyond pleased with it.
Despite some spirited abuse, it keeps soldiering on.
https://alnk.to/1C9z5dw
It is a very nice RDS and being fully made in the US does not hurt either.

00:13:03
Delta Stryker 3.5-21x44 Wrap-up

This scope comes up a lot since I really like the configuration. It is time to do a final wrap-up of it.

It is one of my favourite scopes on the market today, especially for the money, since I naturally lean toward general purpose-ish designs. Still, while the 3.5-21x44 Stryker is relatively compact and light, it still clearly leans toward the precision side of things, which suites me very well.

https://annexdefense.com/optics-and-optic-accessories/delta-optics/

00:10:25
Updates, deals and new review items: PLxC RDB, Zeiss Tripod, etc

As the week is coming to an end, I find myself in an unusual place: home.

I plan to be home between now and September 1st when I have to go to Israel for ten days, returning on the 11th (dayjob stuff).

For the last couple of months, between family vacations, work and a couple of matches, it seems like I only spent enough time at home to check zero on my 6.5CM Fix and head out again (it has not shifted, thank you Area 419 mount).

I have a lot to do during the next two weeks, but I will try to take some pictures, film some footage and release it as I go along. I can edit videos on the plane or in Israel just about as well as I can at home.

While generally, I am very picky about what I accept for review (given my bandwidth limitations), I do have a few new things here worth talking about.

One is Primary Arms new PLxC RDB 1-8x24 LPVO. It is essentially a version of the original FFP PLxC LPVO except with different reticle illumination technology. The new model utilizes diffractive reticle illumination (same style ...

Had to switch to a different streaming service

Rumble Studio crapped out on me. so I hadd to stream using a different service

Well, imagine THAT....

I wonder if all of the Youtube frauds who spent the last few weeks shamelessly lying for clicks are going to go apologize to Sig now.

https://taskandpurpose.com/news/air-force-m18-arrest/

post photo preview
Steiner C35 Gen2 Mount
from Annex Defense

The production version of the Annex Defense's mount for the Steiner C35 Gen2 thermal Clip-on is finally here.  At $1600 (when this is published), the clip-on is an absolute steal.

I've had it for a few days, but, me being the good old paranoid me, I spent some time shooting with it before posting anything.  I had a couple of days with it prior to last weekend's match in Montana and a couple of days after.  Another to pop it on and off a few times and get a couple of hundred rounds of 6.5Grendel through the gun to see if anything shakes loose.  So far so good.

The C35 Gen2 clip-on is sitting on my 6.5Grendel AR as a part of a long running "Only One" project that I have.  It pairs perfectly with the Steiner H6Xi 2-12x42 scope.

Here is what comes in the box from Annex Defense:

The order in which the whole thing comes togethe is pretty stragihtforward:

-slide the thermal washer onto the threaded interface extending out of the back of the clip-on

-spin the mount itself onto the threaded interface (the mount is threaded on the inside) until it can go no further

-rotate the mount so that the clip-on is properly lined up to the picatinny clamp

-once you are happy with the alignment, use the three nylon tipped set screws (you'll need an allen wrench for that) to lock in the position of the clip-on in the mount.  You need very little torque on the set screws.  They are there for one reason and one reason only: to keep the mount from spinning when you tighten the timing nut in the next step

-spin the timing nut onto the threaded interface of the clip-on to lock the mount in place.  You should not need the timing nut wrench, but one is in there just in case.

Here are the pieces laid out in the order in which you will need them.

When you are done, it should look like this:

Note that the mount normaly comes with two T20 screws.  I am using two thumbscrews instead, since I am popping the mount on and off all the time.  It seems to be staying put with the thumbscrews just fine.  I am hoping Annex will offer the thumbscrews as an option.

It is not quite an equivalent of a QD mount, but we needed something with an extremely low profile clamp to fit under scopes with fairly large objectives.  As is, the mount works with most scope that have objective lens diameter of 50mm or less.

I am using with with Steiner H6Xi 2-12x42 and the two work together exceedingly well.

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Scoping Gas Guns
an interesting question that acme in via PM

I received this question via a private message and thought it was interesting enough to answer it in some detail.  I have been thinking a lot about appropriate optics for gas guns recently, so this came it at the right time.

 

Here is what I ahve been messing with last few days:

 

Above: 18" WOA barrel 5.56 AR-15 with Burris XTR PS 5.5-30x56 on it.

Below: 22" Satern barrel 224Valkyrie AR-15 with Delta Stryker 3.5-21x44 on it.


For obvious reasons, I am not posting who asked the question, but what I'll do is send him a link to this article, so that he gets an answer and we might have a good discussion.
Here is what I received:

Had a question for you
I have a Knights Armament SR25 6.5CM with a 14.5" barrel - I plan on shooting 100 - 600 yards at targets at 100 yd intervals
I am favoring the TT 315P with an Aimpont Acro mounted on top -( see you liked the TT315M) - would that be enough magnification?
I saw the SB SB 5-20 which offer more top end - I like the turrets on the Tanget and tooless Zero - what are your thoughts between the 2?
If I stayed 400 and under - how do you see the TT315P with the Acro Red dot against the SB 1-8 Short Dot (saw your review on that)

There isn't really enough information in the question for a simple answer, so let's consider a couple of options.

What is the gun for? 

For shooting medium range (out to 600) with occasional close range use?  If yes, go with a conventional scope and offset or piggybacked RDS.

For shooting at close distance with occasional med/long range use? If yes, so with a nice LPVO like the above mentioned S&B Short Dot 1-8x24 https://alnk.to/3J8vlFv.  It is quite capable at long range, but where it will really knock your socks off is up close and personal.

The question of what is enough magnification is pretty personal.  For me, 3-15x is plenty, but I shoot a lot off of the tripod and off of barricades which likely influences my decision.  For that, my 3-15x50 TT315M Tangent works great and 6mrad of elevation is plenty.  https://alnk.to/gVNkUXB  175gr #08 out of a shoter tube will drop in the 5 to 5.5mrad range at 600 yards.

For a dedicated long range semi-auto, other than the looks, there isn't much downside to a larger scope, which is why I set up Burris' XTR PS on the 5.56 AR pictured above.  It is for my son to learn to shoot at distance and to us in next year's BOTC match.  https://alnk.to/gp33YuR

If I were setting up an accurate semi-auto and wanted a high mag scope for it, I would likely lean toward March 4.5-28x52. https://alnk.to/dLjHgjh  It is compact, relatively light and very good optically for any use other than the dead of the night (for which we should be using clip-ons anyway).

S&B Short Dot is a very nice scope, but March is a newer design and, other than the lowest light, has an edge in terms of image fidelity and stray light control.

TT315P Tangent is a veyr ncie scope and toolles turrets are appealing.  However, there is a weight penalty to that.  For me, that was not worth it.  I ahve 5-25x56 and 7-35x Tangents and those toolless turrets are spectacular.  However, in a 3-15x50, I am quit ecomfortable with simpler 6mrad per turn knobs on the TT315M.

 

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A morning with a chronograph

When I tell people that I am using Hornady's factory ammo for matches, I get occasionally surprised looks.  Occasionally.  Most of the time, I get fairly condescending looks from handloaders who would not let a factory round pollute the chambers of their precision rifles if their lives depended on it.

To be fair, if I had the time, I might be reloading as well.  I might be able to do better than modern factory ammo, but the truth is that I am not a quarter MOA shooter, so a lot of that would be lost on me.  The UKD matches I fidn most interesting can be done by a competent shooter with a 1MOA gun.  I am working on that first part.  I reload when I have to, but if I can get factory ammo that's not outrageously expensive and that shoots well, I will go with that every time.

I looked around and realized that I have about 600 rounds of Hornady 147gr 6.5CM factory ammo from two lots.  400 rounds from one that I will use during the match later this month.  The remainder I will likely use up practicing prior to that.

I woke up early and snuck out to the range while my family was still asleep earlier today.

I set up in the 100 yard tunnel we have.  I took my four shots to zero with the lot I plan to use for the match.  Then I fired a six shot ~0.7MOA group.  That's accurate enough for my purposes.

Here are the chronograph results:

It is slow, but accurate and consistent.

Then I shot a five round group of Hornady 147gr ammo from the other lot.

Both of those lots are not too shabby for factory ammo.  POI was within 0.2mrad between the two lots, all laterally.  

 

I had some other ammo on hand, so I fired two five shot groups with Berger 144gr hybrid target ammo and Sako TRG 136gr.

Here is what I got for five rounds of Berger:

That's not a ton of statistics, but it is a data point.  The group was ~1.1MOA

 

Here the data for the Sako TRG 136gr ammo:

This ammo showed some mild pressure signs, but not too significant.  

Again, this is not a ton of data, but Hornady is looking pretty decent here.

I'll repeat the zero retention and consistency tests a couple more times between now and June 18th when we head to Wyoming.

I might pick up a couple more boxes of Hornady 147gr from a different lot to get some more data.

More to come.

 

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