DarkLordOfOptics
Politics • Science & Tech • Sports
Alpha Class Long Range Scope Review, Part 1
November 18, 2022
Guest contributors: Glassaholic

Editor's Note: this really excellent comparison is entirely a brainchild of Bill, who goes by @Glassaholic here and on Sniper's Hide.  I had to split it into two parts due to a character limit imposed by Locals.

 

Tangent Theta 5-25x56, ZCO 5-27x56, Schmidt & Bender 3-27x56, Schmidt & Bender 5-25x56, Vortex Razor G3 6-36x56, March G2 5-40x56, March 4.5-28x52 and Burris XTR III 5.5-30x56 Reviewed

 

PART 1

 

It has been almost a decade since I first began doing reviews for scopes on Snipers Hide and if you would have asked me ten years ago if I’d be doing a review of some of the highest end scopes available on the market I would have “spit out my milk” (the most expensive scope I had at the time was a Zeiss Conquest 4.5-14 with Rapid Z reticle).  Like many of you, the Hide has ruined me when it comes to average grade scopes, what I used to think was “all that was needed” has become something I won’t even consider today, at least not for anything serious.  I used to be an moa guy, or rather an IPHY guy, who thought mils were something that forged steel or related to the metric system or equaled centimeters and well, as an old fashioned American I don’t know no centipeders and never gave it the time of day.  Similar situation with SFP vs. FFP, up until about 20 years or so ago I don’t think I could have told you what a first focal plane reticle was, weren’t all reticles the same?  I could go on and on about the knowledge I’ve picked up from the Hide and diving more into the shooting sports, but you get the point, I was an ignoramus who thought he had enough knowledge to shoot long distance (at that time I thought 300 yards was long distance) and didn’t need anyone else telling me otherwise.  Years ago someone took the time to patiently explain to me what I was missing and one day it finally clicked, I saw the light and realized my way of thinking with moa = inches and mil = centimeters was completely faulty, both are angular measurements and can be used successfully for solutions to hit a target at any distance (within the viable range of a given cartridge and barrel).  Most of us today use mrad (mil) or moa hash reticles which is commonly referred to as the “ruler in front of you”, stop thinking about inches or centimeters – they mean nothing to the angular measurement, but instead input your DOPE into a ballistic solver, use the solution and shoot, watch for bullet impact or splash and notice that your reticle shows POI (Point Of Impact) was .8 mils below and .3 left of where your POA (Point Of Aim), you don’t have to calculate inches or centimeters at all, you just adjust your POA or move your turrets the proper direction and voila, next shot – impact, simple as that (well maybe not if it’s a very windy day).  This review is not going to get into the merits of using moa or mil reticle/turrets (if you’d like to know more, click here >>> https://www.snipershide.com/precision-rifle/stop-the-debate-mils-vs-moa-vs-iphy/) but based on the scopes in my review it is clearly focused on FFP optics, which I do feel, in many ways, are superior to SFP optics especially if using any kind of milling style reticle.

 

HISTORY OF SCHMIDT & BENDER

Schmidt and Bender has been around since 1957 but it wasn’t until the PM II class 5-25x56 riflescope was introduced in 2005 (FFP in 2006) that things really began to take off in the precision rifle community, this scope single handedly changed the landscape of the high end FFP market and for many years was “the” scope for serious long range dynamic competition sports due to the unsurpassed (at the time) optical and mechanical quality of the scope, if there was one flaw it would be the tunneling that occurs from 5-7x which has caused many to regard this scope as a 7-25 design more than a 5-25 design.

The 5-25x56 PM II has received a facelift in 2022 in order to withstand the latest requirements of climate zone C2 (-46 degrees Celsius) or diving depths up to 25 meters. In addition, the low profile turrets are advantageous for mounting an LRF above the objective. A redesigned magnification ring is made out of solid aluminum and can accommodate a Throw Lever. In addition, the diopter adjustment can mount a military grade Polarization Filter via a thread as well as Tenebraex caps without needing any bulky adapters. Another new option is a new ocular design that is supposed to remedy the tunneling effect and make the scope a true 5-25 design.

Schmidt and Bender has been awarded the precision sniper rifle dayscope contract. These scopes will be used by special forces for the Army, Navy, Air Force, and Marine Corps.

 

HISTORY OF TANGENT THETA

For many years Schmidt & Bender had been known as the “premier” riflescope manufacturer in the first focal plan (FFP) world, but with the prolific uprising of PRS and other dynamic shooting sports other manufacturers began to catch on and realize there was some money to be made from this niche high end market.  Maybe before anyone else recognized this, it was Chris Thomas of Premier Reticles who saw the light and had the brilliant idea of starting a Skunk Works* of sorts in the high end optical scope world - around 2007 he grabbed what some would say were some of the “best of the best” engineers from the sport optics world and founded the renowned Optronika group - for those who may be somewhat new to the game, Optronika was the brainchild behind the Premier Heritage scope line but their glory days were only short lived (as well as Premier Reticles) and soon after Premier went under Optronika became German Sport Optics (GSO) with help from Blaser and Minox, which is why the Minox ZP5 line of scopes also share the optical design of the Premier/TT lineage.  During its heyday, Premier Heritage was regarded as some of the best glass out there, maybe only rivaled by Hensoldt.  Around 2013/2014 ATI of Canada acquired Premier Heritage scopes and soon thereafter Tangent Theta was born, building upon one of the best optical designs in the industry, engineers at ATI went to work and created what many consider to this day to be the best turrets on the market, their distinct clicks and simple toolless zero set/stop feature are still unrivaled (though some are getting close – more on that later).  As an aside, Chris Thomas went to work for Gunwerks shortly after the fall of Premier and was responsible for the Revic scope design which was another innovative product with its built in HUD; some quick internet sleuthing shows that Chris has been President of Premier Technology, a company I have not heard of so would be curious to learn more as whatever he touches tends to turn into something innovative and productive.
*The Skunk Works holds a special place in my heart as my father was hand picked by Kelly Johnson in the early 50’s and worked for them until his retirement in the early 90’s. 

Editor’s Note:  the development of Tangent Theta scopes started out before Armament Technologies invested into Premier.  Eventually, due to a variety of problems, Premier went under and ATI, being the investor in Premier at the time, ended up with all of its assets.  Optronika in Germany merged with Minox and became GSO.  They currently make riflescopes under Minox and Blaser brands.  Tangent Theta optical design is an evolved version of the original Premier/Optronika with very different mechanics.

 

HISTORY OF VORTEX

Ask someone about Vortex scopes 20 years ago and you’d get blank stares, that’s because the company was just beginning.  Daniel Hamilton and his wife Margie started Eagle Optics in the mid 80’s with an emphasis on mail order sales of various sport optics, in fact, in 1998 I bought my first “high end” optic from Eagle Optics (I still have the receipt), it was a Bausch & Lomb Elite 4000 4-16x50 and had excellent glass for the time.  Mr. Hamilton began Vortex in 2002 and in 20 years has become one of the worlds largest sport optics manufacturers.  In 2014 Vortex announced their Gen II series of Razor HD scopes and while the 4.5-27x56 would not compete for best glass, it offered one of the best values in the growing PRS world with some putting it at the same level as the Nightforce ATACR F1 series that many considered to be cream of the crop at the time.  Whether it was marketing genius or generous sponsor program or the fact they made a fantastic scope at a great price (more likely all three together), this scope went on to be one of the most used scopes within the top 100 PRS shooters for a number of years according to Precision Rifle Blogs surveys, only being topped out by Nightforce’s ATACR 7-35x56 in recent years which I’m sure contributed to the design of the latest Gen III Razor, the 6-36x56 introduced in 2022.  Will the 6-36 follow in the footsteps of the 4.5-27 and lead the pack in PRS and NRL sports going forward, only time will tell but without giving too much away in my review, I would not be surprised.

Editor’s Note:  the first Vortex Razor Gen2 scopes were shipped in summer of 2014, about a year before Nightforce introduced the FFP version of the ATACR 5-25x56.  As far as comparative size of different companies in the sporting optics world goes, we can safely assume that Vortex is easily the largest one by revenue and it is not close.  

 

HISTORY OF MARCH

March is another company with beginnings in the 2000’s.  In 2004 Shimizu Fumio and others formed DEON Optical Corporation and in 2007 the first March scope was introduced.  With a primary focus on benchrest and F Class shooting styles, March entered the FFP market in 2011 with the 3-24x42 scope, offering one of the first 8x erector FFP scopes to the market.  When I joined Snipers Hide in 2012 one of my first questions related to lightweight tactical scopes and I got a plethora of answers but the two scopes that stood out were the Premier Reticles LT 3-15x50 and the March 3-24x42.  Having a background in professional photography I knew a little about scope/lens design and new that the higher the magnification range (or zoom range in lens terminology) the more image quality (IQ) is degraded, memories of my first Tamron 28-200 came to mind that was quickly sold for much better quality “professional” grade lenses.  So, you could say I had some hesitancy when some guy named ILya (aka Dark Lord of Optics) gave high praise to the March design and soon I would have my own and was impressed to say the least, but one of my goals was low light capability and ultimately the darkness of the 42mm objective had me looking elsewhere.  Soon thereafter the 3-24x52 was released and I picked that scope up as well and was pleasantly surprised at how well this scope performed, but at the time I was obsessed with the Christmas tree reticle craze and ultimately moved on.  Back in 2018 March was struggling with getting a better foothold into the FFP market and specifically the PRS/NRL style sports, their 3-24x52 and 5-40x56 scopes were decent sellers but not making many waves in these sporting competitions and their reticles were rather uncompelling to this market as well.  Through an interesting set of circumstances, I was put in touch with March leadership where I gave my honest opinion and advise on the current lineup and potential future designs, I also put March in touch with ILya who was the brain behind the excellent FML-TR1 reticle and soon March had input from some PRS competitors to create the FML-PDK reticle.  A short body scope with too much magnification just has too many limitations for dynamic shooting sports, terms like “narrow depth of field (DOF)”, “finicky eyebox and parallax” seemed to come up often when 8x erector scopes were mentioned.  March took the constructive criticism to heart and soon thereafter the 4.5-28x52 was born, a first for March with a 6.22x erector and some other secret sauce to help this scope perform amazingly well for such a short body design.

Editor’s Note: The original team at Deon came out of Light Optics Works.  They started their company in order to produce the best that could be built in Japan.  They are really adept at keeping very high performing optical systems comparatively light and exceedingly durable.  

 

HISTORY OF ZCO

Around 2018 (or just before) a brand new scope company was introduced to us and the official announcement may have come first right here on the Hide, I remember seeing that thread for maybe a week or so before I actually clicked on it, and I’m so glad I did because unbeknownst to me ZCO would become synonymous with “zero compromise” and would soon be discussed in the ranks of TT, Schmidt and Hensoldt.  Many years ago Jeff Huber was a big part of a little company some of you may have heard of called Nightforce and after a bitter departure with Nightforce found himself as the marketing guru for Kahles USA and I assume was responsible for the relationship with Shannon Kay of K&M Shooting Complex that was a big part of the birth of PRS shooting competitions.  I remember this well because it was around 2014 that I was in the market for a higher end scope, but was very particular about reticles and the SKMR series of reticles had just been released with the Gen III version of the venerable Kahles K624i, and I had a long talk with Jeff on the phone which ultimately convinced me to spend the extra money to go this route.  Jeff then left Kahles and we soon found out why when Zero Compromise Optic was introduced – optics that are assembled right here in the USA with parts manufactured in their uber secret facility in Austria.  Combining one of the best ergonomic designs in the market along with stellar Austrian glass, ZCO has taken the competition world by storm.

Editor’s Note: The origins of ZCO are not entirely clear, but the core team both in US and Austria all came out of Kahles.  In some ways, ZCO scopes are what Kahles should have been.  I do not have any insight into whether they were pushed out of Kahles or left because the product direction they wanted wasn't happening at Kahles or if it was a simple management dispute.  Whatever the cause, ZCO has clearly made an impact on precision shooting community.

 

THE SCOPES

Tangent Theta 5-25x56, ZCO 5-27x56, Schmidt & Bender 3-27x56, Schmidt & Bender 5-25x56, Vortex Razor G3 6-36x56, March Gen2 5-40x56, March 4.5-28x52 and Burris XTR III 5.5-30x56

Why only these, how come brand X or model Y aren’t in here, well plain and simple I am limited on funds and I have to purchase most of the scopes for my reviews, so I’m limited to my own personal collection as well as what may interest me at the time so I do apologize if a scope you were really hoping would be included is not in here, maybe a possibility for a future review…  Yes, in some of the images you see the Burris XTR III 5.5-30x56, mostly because it was my rimfire trainer scope prior to this review and I was curious how a $1k class scope would compare to the alpha class which cost a considerable amount more.

A couple years ago I reviewed the March 4.5-28 alongside the Tangent Theta 5-25, not because I thought it would be a “fair” comparison but out of curiosity to see how well the March could hold against what many consider to be one of the best scopes on the market today.  I also had the March with my ZCO 4-20 and am providing those two images below to give you an idea of the size comparison, what is unique with the March is that it is the only “ultra short” scope out of all these reviewed here which does put it at somewhat of a disadvantage (short focal length scopes with high magnification erectors tend to be more finicky with eyebox, DOF and Parallax).

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Keep in mind this evaluation is based on my own personal observations based on what my eyes “see” when looking through the scope.  I pay meticulous attention when setting up my diopters for each scope making sure to fine tune them to my eye.  My eyes are very sensitive to CA while some people cannot or have difficulty seeing CA when looking through the same scope.  Everyone’s eyes are different, and my observations will undoubtedly be different from others. That being said, I try to be as objective as possible but, like all of us, do have my bias’, though I try my best to inform you of my own personal preferences so you can make judgement calls based on your own preference.  It should also be noted that I am not paid by anyone to do these reviews, I do have some relationships with dealers and some manufacturers that help out some, but by no means am beholden to any particular manufacturer and those that I do work with are well aware of this.  Special thanks go out to Mountic Oudtoors @MOUNTIC (https://mounticoutdoors.com/) who is a Hide sponsor and dealer in Tangent Theta, ZCO, March, Manners, Spuhr and more, I’d also like to thank Jason at eurooptic.com with the Schmidt 3-27.

SPECS

The below specs are provided by the manufacturers which provides a good baseline for what these scopes offer.  Vortex is highlighted in yellow as it is new for 2022.  Highlighted in red is a potential drawback and in green is a potential benefit.

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TURRETS

This review does not cover the accuracy of each scope but covers the functionality – since any manufacturer is capable of producing a lemon it’s always a good idea to test your scope to ensure its mechanical accuracy. 

Tangent Theta

I wrote the following in my previous review and will repeat it here - I have never considered myself a turret purest, having had many other scopes by numerous manufacturers over the years I could never quite understand what the “fuss” was all about with regard to turret feel.  My general rule is – can it get me where I want to go quickly?  If the turret can do that and is repeatable then it is a win in my book.  That being said, I have experienced some somewhat lackluster turrets that leave much to be desired, so I assume we all have a threshold we are willing to accept.  All that being said, if turret feel is your game, then Tangent Theta owns it – very distinct, no play whatsoever and a nice clunk between each .1 mrad gives you a sense of confidence anytime you spin the elevation or windage.  Keep in mind these are 15 mrad per rev, and sometimes the spacing can be too tight when mfr’s try to pack so many clicks into one rev, but TT decided to give you something more akin to a Ferrari stick shift to grab onto – it is meaty and with a diameter that allows for refined spacing throughout the 15 mrad of travel for each rev.  Another unique feature is the toolless zero, something else that is unmatched in the industry.  Have you ever found yourself at the range and forgot that tiny little hex wrench?  What usually follows is #@&^%#$.  With the Tangent you simply use your fingers to loosen the top plate of either elevation or windage and then you pull up slightly and spin to wherever zero is, push back down and tighten the top plate, that’s it, no hex wrenches needed.  The Zero stop is always .5 mrad under 0 so this is automatically set wherever you set zero.  Something I wish every manufacturer would introduce and if you don’t have that feature then do what Kahles did and stick a magnetic hex wrench inside the illumination battery cover so you have easy access in the field.  My one and only complaint is that for such a massive turret housing, TT opted to put little tiny numbers, for young eyes this may not be a big deal, but ZCO got this one right with their large numbers and bold lines, something I wish TT and others would offer.  Having had several Tangents now I can say they still reign supreme but that mountain is being climbed by other manufacturers (see below) that some may consider just as good if not better than TT.  Turrets are non-translating which means the turret does not rise or fall when spinning through the different revolutions.

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March FFP Gen II 5-40 turrets

Having reviewed the March 5-42x56 HM a couple years ago I fell in love with those turrets, not just for their locking mechanism but for the superb feel that is one of the closest to Tangent Theta I have felt to date.  March has essentially put the same turrets in the 5-40 scope and labeled it “Gen II”, like the 5-42 turrets before, these turrets excel with extremely positive clicks and nice wide 10 mrad per rev spacing, even if you do not need the locking mechanism, these turrets are a refinement over March’s standard turrets that is hard to describe – it is a very distinct click with excellent audible feedback.  The locking mechanism is unique and sits atop the turret as a lever that you can switch on to lock or switch off to allow it to freely spin, both elevation and windage share this design which is an advantage.  I prefer this (and Schmidt’s DT II+) design over the up/down mechanism of the Vortex and ZCO.  To set the zero stop there is a small hex nut at the top of the turret that you tighten but be careful not to over torque, my only gripe is that if you don’t tighten far enough it is easy to move past the zero desired which may limit its repeatability.  Turrets are translating which means the turret rises and lowers when spinning through the different revolutions.

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Editor's Note: I have spent a TON of time with March's new turrets and with S&B's DTII+ turrets.  These are easily my favourite locking turrets on the market at the moment.  I thought they would lock up after a few months in unhospitable environments out here, but they gave me zero issues.

 

Schmidt PM II 5-25 DT turrets

These represent some of the traditional turrets that Schmidt has offered for a while, they are somewhat muted and close together, but no noticeable play between clicks.  Setting your zero is done through traditional hex screws on the periphery of the turret.  Turrets are non-translating which means the turret does not rise or fall when spinning through the different revolutions.

Editor's Note: These have been around for a very long time and they work well.  Their durability has stood the test of time, but if I were buying a S&B scope, it would have the DT II+ turrets.

 

Schmidt PM II 3-27 DT II+ turrets

These turrets are completely different from the traditional design Schmidt has offered in the past, they are somewhat lower profiled and a bit larger in diameter, but the main difference is in how they function.  These turrets have a very solid and distinct click value with minimal play between clicks – Schmidt engineers did their homework on this one.  Turrets are non-translating which means the turret does not rise or fall when spinning through the different revolutions.  The added benefit of the DT II+ system is you have a lever for both elevation and windage that allows 3 settings: Locked, Unlocked with MTC and Unlocked without MTC (for those who may not know, MTC stands for More Tactile Clicks which means every full mrad value the click is stiffer than the rest providing a “more tactile” response).  When in the locked position there is no play or movement in the turret.  It should be noted that I had issue with previous generation MTC turrets, the full mil stronger click was so strong it would cause me to inadvertently overtravel by .1-.2 clicks coming out or going back (for example: if I had a solution of 5.1 mils I would overtravel to 5.2 or 5.3 and would then have to dial back causing delay) the DT II+ MTC has rectified that and feels like the ideal resistance without having to jump forward to get out of the full mrad value.  The Schmidt turrets are non-translating which means the turret does not rise or fall when spinning through the different revolutions.  I would rate these turrets as the best yet from Schmidt and Bender and arguably close to Tangent Theta in quality.

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Editor's Note: DTII+ turrets are on the left in the picture above.

ZCO 5-27 turrets

ZCO offers a double bearing design that is supposed to provide more even clicks throughout the travel.  The clicks are slightly muted, a little mushy with slight play but very accurate.  ZCO offers a locking mechanism where you have to pull up on the turret to unlock and spin and then push down to lock.  Recently ZCO has offered a non-locking design called NLE (Non-Locking Elevation) which is preferred by some.  Turrets are non-translating which means the turret does not rise or fall when spinning through the different revolutions.  Overall the turrets are very nice but not at the level of TT, Schmidt DT II+ or March (from this review).

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March FFP 4.5-28 High Master turrets

Having owned some March scopes previously, I had an expectation the turrets would be about on par with that experience; however, I have been pleasantly surprised with the latest turrets from March as they have very little play and very distinct clicks.  An interesting feature that March has had for a number of years is the 0-Set (or Zero Stop) which is “almost” toolless – if you have a coin or a key in your pocket you should be able to turn the 0-Set to define your zero stop after you have reset zero which does take a 1.5mm hex key.  While it’s not toolless, and it’s not like Kahles with the key hidden in the illumination cover, March does give you a little key chain sized hex tool that doesn’t take up too much room on the key chain.  The zero stop is a friction design and can have overtravel if you twist hard enough, but most of the time will fall on where you’ve set it.  The windage does come capped on the 4.5-28; however, it does have a nice feel so those who prefer to dial for wind can simply remove the cover to have a nice exposed windage turret that is still big enough to grab and spin even if gloved.  Turrets are translating which means the turret rises and lowers when spinning through the different revolutions.  Something else unique to the 4.5-28 scope is that March is providing a larger diameter turret shroud that can be bolted onto the fixed housing, I do prefer the larger numbers and diameter but because the turrets are translating I’ve found it makes it a little harder to determine center unless you are completely centered behind the scope.

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Vortex Razor HD Gen III 6-36x56 turrets

The Razor Gen III represents the top of the line scope from the vast array of scopes that Vortex offers to the public.  Similar to ZCO, Vortex offers a locking mechanism that must be lifted up to unlock and spin and then pushed back down to lock.  There have been a number of complaints from the community on the inconsistency with turret function and feel between scopes, something it would seem Vortex is trying to rectify through their stellar warranty program; however, even after servicing - my turrets are still pretty muted, a bit mushy and with a slight bit of play, but they do manage to fall on the appropriate hashmark each time.  These turrets will probably not win any awards, but they do get the job done which is what matters most.  Turrets are non-translating which means the turret does not rise or fall when spinning through the different revolutions.

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Burris XTR III 5.5-30x56

Resistance is a bit tight on the USA model I had for this review, that along with the sharp knurling can make for a somewhat uncomfortable experience when spinning these turrets.  They do have a good sound and there is slight play in between clicks.  Turrets are translating which means the turret rises or falls when spinning through the different revolutions.

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Editor’s Note: Burris does have an improved version of this scope out called the XTR Pro.  It sports improved image quality and reticle illumination along with a few additional tweaks.  It would be a stronger competitor in this group had it been out a bit earlier.

Turret Mechanical Assessment criteria (ratings: = (equals) > (greater than) ranked highest to lowest):

Turret Click Spacing Ranking:

March G2 5-40 >= TT = SB DT II+ > March 4.5-28 >= ZCO > Burris XTR III > SB DT > Vortex G3

My rankings for turret click spacing have to do with both the distance between clicks and the resistance between those clicks.  This is more or less a personal preference, but my hand feels better with wider spacing and good resistance but not too much. 

Turret Click Feel Ranking:

TT = SB DT II+ = March G2 5-40 > March 4.5-28 >= ZCO > Burris XTR III > SB DT = Vortex G3

This can be very subjective, but I am drawn to more distinct click feel and audible feedback with very little play between marks. 

Turret Alignment Ranking:

TT = SB DT II+ = SB DT > ZCO = Vortex G3 > March G2 5-40 = March 4.5-28 > Burris XTR III

I define turret alignment by the ability for the turret hash marks to fall directly on the indicator mark and not being offset while running the turret out to the extreme and back.  Because of the nature of translating designs, they do rise pretty high above the center mark which gives a slight perception you are off mark if your eye is not perfectly centered.  I much prefer the non-translating designs that do not rise and fall so preference is given for these designs.

Turret Reset Zero and Zero Stop Ranking:

TT >> March 4.5-28 > March G2 5-40 > Vortex G3 > SB DT II+ = SB DT = ZCO = Burris XTR III

In order to reset zero on the March, Schmidt, ZCO and Burris scopes you have to loosen the side hex bolts on the turret housing, then spin the turret to align zero and re-tighten, this is typical of most long range scopes today (zero stop on S&B is around 0.6 mrad below, ZCO is 0.5 mrad below and I can’t remember with the Burris and have since sold the scope) and is only bested by the toolless design of the Tangent Theta turrets.  March offers the coin/key adjustable zero stop mechanism on the 4.5-28 and a hex key adjustment on the G2 5-40; however, some may find an issue as this feature does not always stop below zero at the same spot – depending on how much torque you give it (with your fingers) you may stop short or overtravel from where you intended to set the actual stop.  Tangent is always fixed at .5 mrad below zero and that is something you can count on every single time which has its advantages for night shooters and those who prefer to count up after hitting the stop vs. visual recognition.  Vortex is unique in that the Razor G3 turrets are zeroed by loosening one hex head screw and then turning the center of the turret, there aren’t clicks when turning the center of the turret so you can set it exactly where you want for a precise zero (zero stop is always 0.5 mrad below zero), you can even mark the center dial for switch barrel platforms to easily change zero between barrels.

 

Total Travel Adjustment (Elevation) Ranking:

Vortex G3 36.1 mrad > ZCO 35 mrad > SB DT II+ 34 mrad > March 4.5-28 30 mrad > TT 28 mrad > SB DT 26 mrad = Burris 26 mrad > March G2 5-40 24 mrad

Pretty self explanatory.  There is variation of windage adjustment but as I almost exclusively hold wind with the reticle, this does not play a factor for me and therefore is not evaluated (however, the spec sheet above shows the exact amount for each scope for those who are interested).

Turret Locking Mechanism Ranking:

Schmidt DT II+ >= March G2 5-40 > ZCO > Vortex G3 > Burris – NA = March 4.5-28 – NA = Schmidt DT – NA = TT – NA

Some of these scopes do not offer a locking mechanism so I am going to rank them NA (Not Available).  The Schmidt DT II+ and March G2 5-40 locking mechanism is the best I’ve seen as they allow you to turn the locking feature on or off with a mechanical lever separate from the turret housing itself; whereas, the locking mechanism of the ZCO and Vortex G3 are the pull up to unlock and push down the turret to lock, this method can “fall” into lock depending on how you spin the turrets, of these two the ZCO feels to be more distinct and possibly has less ability to “slip” vs. the Vortex.

Overall Turret Mechanical Assessment Ranking:

TT >= Schmidt DT II+ >= March G2 5-40 > March 4.5-28 >= ZCO > Burris >= Vortex G3

A few years ago, Tangent Theta was simply the best of the best with regard to feel and function; however, I would say the S&B DT II+ and March Gen2 locking mechanism are encroaching on TT territory.  I’d like to reiterate that my rankings are biased towards features, feel and functionality that I prefer so please keep this in mind – where I prefer more distinct sounding clicks you may prefer more muted clicks and would therefore rank other scopes in almost the opposite order in which I have.

 

 

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MECHANICAL ASSESSMENT OF MOVING PARTS

Besides the turrets you have other moving parts on a scope:  the magnification ring, the parallax adjustment and an illumination module, which all require some type of adjustment.  Sometimes manufacturers make the resistance too hard or too light.  These parts are evaluated based on “resistance” which allows them to turn freely with two fingers, but not so loose that they could get bumped out of position accidentally.  In addition, if resistance is so high that turning a dial would cause POA to shift - this would be considered a negative.

 

Mag Ring, Parallax, Diopter and Illumination Mechanical Assessment criteria (ratings: = (equals) > (greater than) ranked highest to lowest):

 

Magnification Ring Movement Ranking:

Vortex G3 >= Schmidt 3-27 = Schmidt 5-25 > TT >= ZCO > March 4.5-28 >= March 5-40 > Burris XTR III

The ideal magnification ring resistance (IMHO) is one that can easily be turned with two fingers – not so hard to turn as it may now affect your POA and not so light that a brush of your hand (or light bump into a barricade, branch, etc.) is going to change the setting.  The Vortex G3 had what I consider to be the best with regard to resistance and smoothness.  Next up would be the S&B 3-27 and 5-25 which both exhibited excellent resistance and smoothness.  The TT was slightly stiff but very smooth while the ZCO might have been ranked higher as it had outstanding resistance, but it felt a little “gritty” when turning.  Both March scopes were a little too stiff to be ranked higher, but not bad and very smooth.  The worst of the bunch was the Burris XTR III, the magnification ring needs a pipe wrench to turn and worse yet I sent this scope back to Burris for “repair” and Burris kindly looked at it and wrote back saying it is within spec – not sure what gorilla’s work at Burris and think 200 ft-lbs of torque is good spec for a scope but that’s a complete no go in my book, in defense many shooters will say “get a Throw Lever” and while this does definitely help, I think a scope should be both usable with and without a mechanical helper.

Parallax knob Movement Ranking:

ZCO >= March 4.5-28 >= March 5-40 = Schmidt 3-27 = Schmidt 5-25 > Vortex G3 >= Tangent Theta > Burris XTR III

The parallax on the ZCO, both March scopes and both Schmidt scopes were all outstanding offering what I’d consider the right amount of resistance while being very smooth.  The resistance on the Vortex was very tight, so much so I thought I’d check how good the Vortex VIP warranty is and sent the scope in and was pleasantly surprised they were able to lighten it up to maybe a little better than TT level which is to say “excellent” – completely different experience from Burris warranty with the magnification ring where they did nothing.  The Tangent has more resistance than the magnification and takes some force to turn, I would not say the force is too much, but rather more than I would prefer, but coming up last again is the Burris XTR III with having a bit too tight of resistance.

Parallax Adjustment Forgiveness:

ZCO >= TT >= Vortex G3 > March 4.5-28 >= Schmidt 5-25 > March 5-40 > Schmidt 3-27 > Burris XTR III

What exactly is parallax “forgiveness”?  I define this as how finicky it is to adjust the parallax dial in order to get parallax properly set for the distance to target from the scope, keep in mind that many think of the parallax dial as more of a “side focus” and indeed it does help focus the image but it’s primary purpose is to correct for parallax misalignment which can cause you to miss a target at distance.  ZCO, Tangent Theta and the Vortex G3 really stood out among the rest to be some of the most forgiving which is not a huge surprise with how long these scopes are with relatively mild erectors (5.4x, 5x and 6x respectively).  The next surprise for me was the March 4.5-28 which is the shortest scope of the bunch and short scopes tend to struggle more than long scopes, the March comes up very close to the Schmidt 5-25, following that was the March 5-40 with an 8x erector, the Schmidt 3-27 with it’s 9x erector was definitely more finicky and the Burris XTR III was also pretty finicky.

Editor’s Note: Side focus knob is indeed image focus.  That is its primary function and when the scope is set up correctly, while focusing the image it also dials out parallax error.  Perhaps, I need to re-visit this topic in more detail.

 
Diopter Adjustment Rankings:  Tie

All scopes tested here offer a “fast focus” diopter allowing for quick adjustments, some offer a lock ring to help against slippage but it’s wise to use some kind of semi-permanent marker to mark the ideal setting for your eye.  If you have not seen my PSA on setting up your diopter, it is attached, so you can look at the process to better set your diopter for your eyes (if you are used to the blank wall or blue sky method only you may be missing out on maximum performance of your scope).

Editor’s Note: it is a very good PSA, but somewhat incomplete.  I am pretty sure I have covered it in a livestream, but it is another topic that should be re-visited.

 

Illumination Dial Performance Rankings:

ZCO  > Vortex G3 >= Schmidt 5-25 and 3-27 >= Tangent Theta > March 4.5-28 and 5-40 > Burris XTR III

There is no question that ZCO offers the widest range of features with illumination – you have the ability to select between red and green, there is an auto on/off feature that knows when the scope is slung on your back and will not activate until it gets in a position to fire.  Vortex offers a locking feature on illumination and it must be pulled out to turn.  There seems to be a love or hate relationship with Schmidt and Bender’s illumination tumor, but the rheostat function is very smooth.  Tangent Theta uses a dial with on/off positions as you rotate from lowest to highest power settings, there is definitely more real estate to grab and turn on the TT which gives it an advantage.  March is using a rubber cover over a push button for on/off functionality with numbers 1-6 on the side of the dial, due to being on the side it can be difficult to turn especially if wearing gloves.  March also has an automatic shutoff after one hour from being turned on which will help save battery (I have often left illumination on and forgot to turn off only to find my next outing there is a dead battery).  Burris XTR III has no illumination (the new XTR IIIi does).

Illumination Daylight Bright, Coverage and Bleed:

ZCO >= Vortex G3 > Schmidt 3-27 > TT >= March 4.5-28 = March 5-40 > Schmidt 5-25 > Burris XTR III

ZCO has one of the brightest reticles on the market and is what I consider to be daylight bright (keep in mind I’m not talking Aimpoint or other RDS bright) for a long-range scope which is to say it can be seen in bright midday sun, the entire reticle lights up and there is no discernable bleed even at highest brightness in low light.  Next runner up is the Vortex G3 also with a daylight bright reticle, but different from ZCO Vortex has opted to only illuminate the main vertical and horizontal stadia lines, only minimal bleed was noticed at highest brightness in low light.  The Schmidt 3-27 comes in next and was ever so faint in daylight and barely visible in shadow, only center cross lit up and bleed was minimal.  The next scopes were harder to ascertain ranking as none of them were daylight bright by any stretch of the imagination, the TT had good illumination quality with no bleed and center cross is illuminated with some dots in the tree as well.  Next was the March 4.5-28 which only illuminates a very small center cross and dot, no bleed is noticeable and very good low light performance.  The March 5-40 is similar to the TT in that the full cross is illuminated along with some dots in the tree, no bleed was noticed and coming in last was the “old” Schmidt 5-25 which has very dim illumination even at highest settings but because of this no bleed was noticed, this would be a low light illumination use only.  The Burris XTR III of course has no illumination but user reports say the new XTR IIIi has a very dim illumination module that is not usable in daylight which is unfortunate as it’s sibling the XTR Pro is supposed to have a daylight bright illumination module – must be one of the perks you get when you go “Pro”.

Editor’s Note: ZCO’s illumination is superb.  The only precision scope that is as good is the new Zeiss LRP S5.

 

Overall Mag Ring, Parallax, Diopter and Illumination Mechanical Assessment Rankings:

ZCO > Vortex G3 > TT >= March 4.5-28 = March 5-40 > Schmidt 3-27 > Schmidt 5-25 > Burris XTR III

When including everything above, it’s pretty clear the ZCO wins this one hands down as it offers pretty much excellence across the board with the only deficit being the “gritty” magnification experience.  The rest of the pack I’m going to rank based on my first impressions of the whole mechanical experience and not necessarily with an average of the order above.  Again, take my rankings with a grain of salt because they are based on “my” preferences for the most part.  One thing is clear, Burris comes in last and I suppose based on its price point this should not be a surprise; however, it is my understanding that the new XTR IIIi scope offers improvements over the original XTR III with regard to mechanical function and considering it’s “above class” optical performance, makes it a very compelling option for those on a budget.52760_tanaabny31soibg_custom.jpeg

 



 

For the rest of the article and the conclusions, see the next post:  https://darklordofoptics.locals.com/post/3076493/alpha-class-long-range-scope-review-part-2

 

Editor's Note: I did not want to pollute the whole thing with affiliate links.  Most of these are available from Eurooptics and a few other fine retailers https://bit.ly/3tYC193

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Revic Acura RS525i 5-25x50 RH2 Reticle

Here is a look through the Acura 5-25x50 scope from Revic. https://alnk.to/gp27CYM
The reticle they have in there is what is probably the best general purpose hunting reticle on the market today and the scope itself is rather nice.
It is a bit heavier than I'd like and it is in MOA. Beyond that, I am having a hard time finding something to complain about.
Now that I think about it, the one other reticle that is conceptually similar to the RH2 is Burris' 3PW-MOA in their 2.5-12x42 Veracity PH scope. That scope is normally about $1100, but EO has it for $799 at the moment for some reason https://alnk.to/h6H9yhT
That smallest of the Veracity PH scopes is another design that should be much better known than it is.
Same goes for the Revic Acura. While Revic's smart scope is well known, the more conventional Acura barely gets any mention. That's unfortunate. It is a truly excellent design.

00:12:21
Looking at Telson's PH2 Reticle

Telson is a new optics company out of Canada. I've talked about them a bit in the past. It is one of the several companies I occasionally provide input to, mostly when it comes to reticles.
The way the reticle design process went with Telson, was a little different that what I normally do. I did not just hand them over a reticle drawing. These guys are shooters and I wanted to try a more collaborative process. One of the principles at Telson, Jared, would do an iteration and send it to me. I'd go over it in some detail, mark it up and send it back to him. Then, we would get on a video conference call and hash it out.
Lather, rinse, repeat.
In the grand scheme of things, these are not my reticles. These are Telson's reticles, with me being the sounding board and providing some pointed advice.
So far, I rather like how it turned out.
I have one of their first production scopes in my hands. It has not yet been on a gun, which I will rectify shortly. I have, however, been looking ...

00:06:37
Q ERECT9R Suppressor

There are widespread reports of arson and looting coming out of the California Fires. There is even a theory out there that all of these fires are started by various chilean and venezuelam gangs, so that people would evacuate and leave their houses easy prey for looters. National Guard is already deployed to deal with that, but as we all know, the only way to discourage looters and other criminals is for law abiding citizens to be empowered to defend themselves, their families and their homes.
That made me think of suppressors. They are very much illegal in California, but they are a wonderful addition to our home defense guns.
The only handgun suppressor I own (so far) is the 9mm Erect9r from Q, which is the subject of this video.
https://alnk.to/2FCTrpa
Most of my use has been on a 9mm Glock handgun, but I did run it for a while on a subsonic 8.6BLK. Erect9r is not rated for supersonic rifle ammo, but it worked very well with subsonic 8.6 using this adapter ...

00:05:20
DLO Tumblers

I mentioned it during a podcast and a couple of people expressed interest.

I am going to place an order for a few more of these coffee tumblers, so I am looking for a headcount.

These are graphite gray tumblers with ceramic lining on the inside.

One side has my DLO logo and the other says "Making Sense Of The Nonsense since 1991" (the year we came to the US). A couple of quick photos are below.

Last time I purchased a few, they cost me $25 each.

I set up a payment ink, so that I can get an exact headcount:
https://buy.stripe.com/6oEdUbgHs0U3h208ww

If you are interested, please place the order via the link above. I'll let it sit for about a week or so to get the exact number of tumblers I need, then place the order.

Last time, it took the about ten days to send me the tumblers, so if you order one it will get to you towards the end of February.

SHOT 2025: Telson Optics Reticle Overview

Here is a video we recorded at the Telson Optics booth during SHOT last month.

As is usually the case with me talking, it is a bit off the cuff. And not as structured as I’d like, but it should give you a good idea of how the reticle design was approached.

SWFA SS HD 3-9x42: The OG MPVO

This scope has been around forever. I have two.
It might be the OG MPVO. On one hand it could use some updates (covered windage turret, zero stop elevation and an illuminated dot would be nice). On the other hand, it has a track record of "just working" that is second to none.
I was moving some scopes around last night trying to decide what I should put on my 458SOCOM AR and somehow ended up with this very scope on it.
Today, I had some questions for the SWFA guys and they mentioned that they finally got some of these in stock again, hence this post.
https://swfa.com/collections/swfa-ss/products/swfa-3-9x42-ss-hd-mil-quad-reticle-30mm-tube-1-mil-clicks-ffp

If you are looking for proven and simple, this is about as proven as you will find.
I have not had the windage turret slip on me during travel, but I still put a piece of tape on it to keep it in place, just in case.
It also does not hurt that this is an FFP scope just under 20 ounces.

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The Copper Creek Cartridge Experience
back to the reloading bench I go...

Like any self respecting firearm enthusiast I always have some number of projects going on concurrently.  One of them is a fast twist 22-250 bolt gun.  

Every once in a while Tikka makes a run of 22-250 T3x rifles with 1-8” twist barrel and I happen to have one.  That dramatically changes the varminty character of the 22-250. With a modern 80gr bullet, it is a nicely viable hunting rifle for small and medium game (just about perfect for pronghorn).  It is also a very capable long range number.  At the altitude where I live, it does not go subsonic until you get to about 1400 yards.

1-8” twist will not stabilize the heaviest available 22 bullets, but works well enough for anything up to about 80grains, depending on the bullet construction.

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Thinking About Open Light and Factory
NRL Hunter

Since my ultimate goal with competition is to shoot NRL Hunter matches in an Open Light class (to more closely resemble the rifles I actually hunt with), I set up my 308Win Fix and 6.5PRC Stag Pursuit for Open Light and Factory respectively.
I have a lot more 308Win ammo than 6.5CM anyway, so that is the rifle I prefer to practice with.

Now that I have a little time before the next Hunter match, I decided to see if I can properly control the muzzle rise with the lighter rifles.  To that extent, I went and sighted them in before proceeding with shooting at various plates mostly between 500 and 600 yards to see if I can control the  muzzle well enough to spot my misses.

The wind was pretty sporting and inconsistent today.  On top of that, I decided to use the lightweight pint-sized gamechanger bag to add to the challenge.  While we were at it, I also tested the new tripod plate from Sunway photo.  I generally like it, but it needs to be a bit wider for shooting purposes.  It is great for holding binos and a wind meter.

Here is how the bag fits on it:

Not bad, but a little more width would help.  The tripod is Field Optics Research's Dome Top Hunter 32.

The 308 Fix is a known quantity since I have talked about it quite a lot in the past.  In this iteration, I have it set up with Tangent Theta 5-25x56 in an Aadmount. 

The muzzle device is Q's Bottle Rocket on top of a Cherry Bomb.  

The bipod is Gunwerks' Elevate.

Rather amazingly, the balance on this thing is just right as is.

However, I must have made a miscalculation somewhere because I thought this would weigh just a hair below 12lbs.  It weighed in at exactly 11lbs and based on the Arizona match, my scales measure a little higher than the ones they used over there (about 5 ounce difference for my 6.5CM gun).

Despite that, I had no real issues controlling the muzzle rise with this setup.  I was able to comfortably spot my shots and see trace as long as I was properly square behind the rifle.  Interestingly, at this weight, it is something I might actually hunt with, but a lighter scope might not be a bad idea.

This also means that I have enough weight budget to use Q's Trash Panda suppressor instead of the Bottle Rocket brake.  While the brake is not obnoxiously loud, I do prefer to run with a suppressor when possible, so I will try that next.  

With the 6.5PRC, I know for a fact that without a decent brake, I could not spot my own shots, so I have Area 419's titanium Hellfire brake on it.  This was my first time shooting with it.

It was substantially loud, but not as obnoxious as some competition brakes I have seen.  More importantly, muzzle rise was minimal at most.  I doubled up on the hearing protection, but the rifle became impressively more mild mannered.  Again, shooting standing off of a tripod in the wind, I had not problem at all spotting my own shots and watching trace when shooting a bit further out.

The rifle is Stag Pursuit in 6.5PRC

The scope is Vortex Razor HD-LHT 4.5-22x50 in Talley MSR rings (the lightest 30mm rings I had on hand).

The bipod is Gunwerks' Elevate.

As shown, the rifle clocked in at 11.7lbs on my scales.  I am inclined to not mess with it too much, but if it comes to that, I can mount a somewhat heavier scope without too much trouble, but I am inclined to let it be.

I did a good number of dry presses and live fire with both rifles.  One thing that surprised me a little was that the Fix had a smaller wobble zone than the Pursuit.  I think I can attribute that to the balance point on the Fix being a little further forward, but some experimentation is in order.

I was definitely shooting better with the Fix, despite the Pursuit being chmabered for a much flatter cartridge.  Perhaps, a heavier bipod will shift the balance point sufficiently.

That is one of the advantages of the Fix design: the buttstock, while sturdy and comfortable, is so light that it is very easy to balance.  Pursuit's beefy buttstock while comfortable, could use some weight cutting.  If I want to ever use this rifle for NRL Hunter's Factory division, I can not make any mods, so I'll do with what I have.  If my arithmetic is correct, I could probably get a lightweight Ckye-pod to shift the weight a little forward.

With all that, I am not sure how I feel about trying to game this too much.  For now, I'll just shoot the rifle as is and see if I can train my way out of this wobble zone issue with some deliberate practice.

I have to admit that Area 419's muzzle brake is pretty impressive.  The rifle is now extremely soft shooting and the muzzle stays down.

The next step for the 6.5PRC is to either buy or work-up some proper match ammo.  All I have is Hornady's 143gr ELD-X which shoots pretty well in this gun, but isn't match ammo.

Hornady loads their 147gr ELDM in 6.5PRC, so that is probably the first option to try.  Looking at the costs, this might be one of the few calibers I have to reload for.

If I were to go compete with a sub-12lbs rifle today, I think I would still take the 308 Fix despite all the ballistic disadvantages.  It is probably just the familiarity factor, but I simply shoot that rifle better.  In the future... we'll see how it goes.

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Trident Barrel
by X2 Devgroup

At this point, I do not remember any more how I stumbled on this barrel, but it is not unusual for me to be looking for relatively random things while I can't sleep at night.
Then again, given how much time I spend at the range, looking at different AR barrels is not all that random.
My take on AR-15s is that they are supposed to be lightweight and accurate enough to reach to the outer limits of the capability envelope of whatever they happened to be chambered for.  I know they are plenty of people out there with freakishly accurate AR-15s that are set up with thick barrel.  They are impressively consistent, but a heavy AR-15 sorta defeats the purpose of an AR-15 to me.
Then again, I do have a couple of moderately heavy small frame AR variants.  One is built around an 18" 223Wylde WOA barrel and the other around a 22" Satern 224 Valkyrie barrel.  I'll talk about those builds in due time and I enjoy shooting both of those rifles quite a bit.  However, I view them as practice rifles since 5.56 and 224V are nice practice rounds for longer range stuff and it is easier to balance heavy barrel rifles for shooting off bags.
Most of my ARs are a lot lighter than that and they are built around 16" barrels of moderate weight.
Ideally, I want this rifle to weigh no more than 8lbs with a scope, typically an LPVO of some sort.  This is the type of rifle I expect to be equally comfortable doing timed short range drills and shooting plates between 600 and 800 yards (with appropriate ammo).
Over the years, you have seen pictures of several of these variants.  One of my favourites is built around a 16" Proof Research carbon fiber barrel.  That's the AR in this video:


I have another one built around an experimental 16" barrel that is sleeved in AlSiC, a rather exotic material.  That way of making barrels did not go into production, unfortunately.  It is not the most intrinsically accurate barrel I have, but it is very well behaved when hot.
Naturally, I also have a couple that simply have thin, near-pencil profiles.
The basic problem with most of the light weight barrels I have seen to date, is what happens when the barrel heats up.  Most barrels end up with substantially larger groups when hot, which is OK.  However, quite a few of them end up with the group centroid also changing, sometimes significantly, which is not OK.
That is an especially commo problem with carbon fiber wrapped barrels.  Christensen barrels are famous for their wandering zero.  Proof Research barrels seem to be better and the two I have do not wander around when warmed up.  However, it appears that some do.  With carbon fiber wrapped barrels I tested, Proof was the best, but it has been a little while since I experimented with it.  More recently, I have heard from others that Helix6 and Bartlein barrels are more consistent, but heavier. 

Most lightweight barrels designed for light weight have an odd (to me) profile with too much metal removed by the chamber.  Some years ago, Adams Arms had their own pencil profile barrel that left a lot more metal near the chamber, then went thing quickly.  The way Q does their light weight barrel is also done with heat distribution in mind.  Their barrel leave a lot of metal near the chamber, then run what is essentially a straight taper.

All this barrel research is probably how I stumbled onto the Trident Barrel from X2 Devgroup https://x2devgroup.com/trident-barrel/

It has very deep flutes which dramatically cuts weight.  It is about five ounces lighter than my carbon fiber Proof barrel of the same length.  Fluting can often cause problems when not properly stress relieved, but it seemed like they were paying attention to this kind of stuff and taking care to not introduce stress.  After digging through my memory banks a little, I remembered that a know someone at that company.  It was time to pick his brain.  He is a pretty serious shooter, and he was happy with these barrels.  Then he said something that made me perk up and pay attention.  He talked about vibration and how these barrels felt "dead".  That is a lot of the same verbiage I hear about structured barrels from TacomHQ.  Once my interest was properly peaked, I looked around, relaized I have enough spare parts to build an upper and that I have a built up AR-15 lower that is not attached to anything.

Once the barrel got here, I gave it a careful look.  In terms of the quality and consistency of the machining, it looked very good.  Those are some seriously deep flutes though.

The barrel, somewhat unusually, is dimpled for both of the gasblock screws and in a way that will work with the majority of gas blocks out there.

I had an Aero upper and an Aero handguard of relatively ghastly color, that probably explains why it was heavily discounted.  Since I fully expect it to be scratched up and covered by dust before too long, I could not care less.

I plan to run it with and without a suppressor, so I added Q's Cherry Bomb compensator to it.  As this is written, I have not fired it yet, but will shotly.  After some consideration, I decided to mount March's excellent 1.5-15x42 MPVO on it. https://alnk.to/b7zh0YQ  That is still the purest expresssion of the MPVO concept on the market today, so I thought it was appropriate.  Depending on how it performs, March may or may not stay on there permanently.  However, for initial break in, long range practice and accuracy evaluation, it knocks the socks off of any and every LPVO ever made.

Most AR-15s are reasonably broken in somewhere between 200 and 500 rounds, so I am not going to stress about accuracy too much in the beginning.  I'll get it sighted in, do some positional shooting and keep an eye on whether there is any abnormal behavious.

The rifle ended up weighing a bit under 6lbs without optics and a bit under 8lbs with March 1.5-15x42 in Burris XTR Signature rings. https://alnk.to/4MBZHCL The suppressor will push it a hair over 8lbs, but that's close enough.  With the bipod as pictured it just under 9lbs.  The bipod is not going to be on there permanently.  If I have to choose between a suppressor and a bipod for weight reasons, Jumbo Shrimp it is  https://alnk.to/880ol8Y

Eventually, I will likely switch to a lighter LPVO on this gun since I prefer the March on a hunting rifle, but in the meantime, configuration-wise, it is a near perfect SPR.

The nice thing about all these AR variants is how easy they are to accessorize, but all those extra gadgets do add weight.  For example, if I throw Steiner's excellent C35 v2 clip-on on there, it is another pound. https://alnk.to/8iV9jU9

An offset red dot sight will not add much weight, but it still adds a little.  Same goes for the light/laser (I think I have an extra CMR-301 https://alnk.to/880olc5 somewhere here that I can use.  It is not super fancy, but it works).

Before it is all said and done, if I keep everything on there, I will end up with am 11.5 to 12 lbs gun.  It sounds like a lot and it is.  However, if I did not start with a sub-6lbs gun before everything that I plan to latch onto it, we'd be talking about a 15lbs setup.  That's why I want a truly accurate sub-6lbs AR-15 and that is why I am always on this "holy grail" barrel search.

Stay tuned for the updates as I test this thing.

 

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