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Gas Gun Optics

One of the side effects of going to a family Bar Mitzva out of town is that you unexpectedly end up with a few moments of peace and quiet.
It takes me roughly five minutes to put on a suit and pretend to be a civilized human being (and four minutes of that is practicing a marginally humane facial expression).
My various family members take a little more time to get ready. If I were at home, there would be a million things to do. Since we are out of town, I have a few minutes to kill. I'll be wrapping this up in the airport somewhere I am sure.
A brief perusal of the usual online forums suggests that there are new posters out there significantly confused about the subject of scoping gas guns.
 

Naturally, a lot depends on what you plan to do with the gun.

The type of a gas gun (or really any gun) you choose flows out of what you plan to do with it.

The type of an optic you choose also depends on what you plan to do with the gun.

The type of a gun you choose DOES NOT DIRECTLY DICTATE THE CHOICE OF AN OPTIC.

They are not unrelated, but one is usually not a direct consequence of the other. The gun is obviously a consideration. For example, if I happen to have a firearm with a very short handguard, that limits certain options. Still, aside from the aesthetics, fundamentally, the application drives the choice of the gun and of the optic.

If you want to go fast with it (clear buildings, etc), put a non-magnifying optic on it. I have a Mepro MOR Pro https://alnk.to/eONlVIo on mine. Before that, it has Vortex UH-1 on it. https://alnk.to/dWdz1Eh Both are full-size optics because I am not trying to keep the weight to a minimum. In terms of getting on target quickly, I think holographics to have a slight edge, but MOR Pro has a couple of additional lasers built-in that are valuable for me.

If your astigmatism makes red dots and holographics unusable, there are several excellent 1x prismatics out there https://alnk.to/cwTvnEj

If you are looking to set up a general purpose relatively accurate AR carbine, get an LPVO. This is the scenario where you do not know what you are setting up for, so you need a true generalist. There are many good options out there. I tend to go with relatively light options, so I am rather anxiously awaiting the arrival of the very compact SAI10.
Until then, here are the LPVOs I use. Most of the LPVOs I use on my guns happen to be FFP:
SAI6 1-6x24 https://alnk.to/fwsnRID
PA PLxC 1-8x24 https://alnk.to/8tQ4D66
Vortex Razor Gen3 1-10x24 https://alnk.to/5jmqYqF
Delta Stryker 1-10x28 https://annexdefense.com/optics-and-optic-accessories/delta-optics/

Primary Arms offers their PLxC 1-8x24 with both FFP and SFP reticles. Both are quite good, but up to now, the way the SFP reticle with a bright fiber dot came together was pretty special. FFP version is quite good, mind you, and they have a new one with a nuclear bright diffractive dot that I look forward to testing.

SAI6 is a somewhat unassuming design that works better in real life than you would think it should based on paper specs. That's why I have three of them. My favourite version is the one with mrad tree and high visibility features.

Razor Gen3 with a nuclear bright reticle illumination is truly fast on 1x and I can take it quite far out on higher mags. If you want a 1-10x that is nearly as fast as a red dot on 1x, it is very hard to beat.

Delta Stryker 1-10x28 is more of a DMR scope with side focus and slightly larger objective. It is very capable across the board, but not quite as fast on 1x as the Razor.

They all have their place and they all work. I also have March Shorty 1-8x24 that has been living on my MiniFix pistol in 300Blk. I might migrate it to my 458SOCOM. It has been superceded by the excellent March 1-10x24 Shorty with its dual focal plane reticle and side focus. It is also a truly excellent general purpose scope, but I do not have one on hand and I figured in this case I should talk about the things I do have here. Delta Stryker 1-10x28, while not quite as nice as the March overall is very good and serves as a DMR oriented LPVO for my purposes.

All of the LPVOs I personally use are still over $1k. If you want to be under, get a prismatic with an offset red dot. There is a broad range of prismatics out there and I have talked about them extensively. If you are looking at it as an LPVO alternative, I am partial to the Element 5x30 https://alnk.to/eONlWUi 
In terms of image quality, it will give anything this side of $1200 a run for its money while offering a 30deg AFOV. 
If you pair it with a well-made but inexpensive enclosed red dot like the Gideon Mediator https://alnk.to/hswIIn5 you are pretty nicely set. That is the setup I have on my FoldAR that I use when travelling for different carbine classes. If an offset RDS is your primary 1x optic, you need to practice with it, but it is relatively intuitive.

Next step up the scope size ladder are the MPVOs. Everyone defines them a bit differently and quite a few complain that all of these classifications are an exercise in mental masturbation. On one hand, they do have a point. On the other hand, I like to be able to separate all these options into directly comparable classes. It makes my life as a reviewer a lot simpler.

If you do not have a hard requirement for 1x, but also do not need particularly high magnification, you get an MPVO. That's a scope with 2.5x or less on the low end, objective of 44mm or less and, preferably a FFP Reticle. I also want to see these be of a relatively compact size since they have to work well behind a clip-on. Upper end magnification is not super critical since most of the use will be on 10x or less. You will only dial up (if it goes higher) on rare occasions when you get to shoot prone in good light.

March 1.5-15x42 is probably the purest expression of this idea and I have one. It is a truly flexible design in terms of what you can do with it. https://alnk.to/bEjIhWk

Leupold Mark4HD 2.5-10x42 is excellent and I am making good use of it as well. https://alnk.to/4qME4vC

SWFA SS HD 3-9x42 is the OG of this category. https://swfa.com/collections/swfa-ss/products/swfa-3-9x42-ss-hd-mil-quad-reticle-30mm-tube-1-mil-clicks-ffp

The new Mark 5HD 2-10x30 with CMR-Mil reticle is extremely promising, but it is not here yet. Same for the Steiner H6Xi 2-12x42 with STR Mil reticle.  The MPVO category is, thankfully growing because, as revolutionary as LPVOs were when they came about, not as many people need 1x as they think.

 

If on a budget and need an MPVO, Swampfox Warhawk 2-10x44 is quite competent, but a little heavy for the category.  Athlon Helos BTR Gen2 2-12x42 is pretty much the standard carrier for a budget MPVO.

Personally, I would want to see more compact options with a 36mm objective and there are some coming.

March is as full featured as it gets. If you truly want to do everything with one scope, this is as close as you are going to get for now. 

Leupold Mark 4HD is a lot less expensive and a lot simpler. There is also a lot less to adjust and it is easier to set up and use. There is something to be said about that. It could use an abbreviated tree reticle of some sort, but even the aging illuminated TMR in mine works well enough. This is also an excellent straightforward hunting scope.

With scopes like these, an offset red dot gives you 1x, albeit with some re-training. Still, one of these scopes is what you setup if close quarter stuff is not in the plans.

Moving up from there are the Crossover designs (various 3-18x50, 3-15x50, 4.5-22x50, etc scopes). That's what you put on a gas gun you want to use when you need to shoot far, but still want to carry this thing around here and there.

I like this scope category and have quite a few of these in varying price ranges.  Some are on accurate semi-autos and some are on bolt guns).
GPO 4-16x50 ultra short (currently tested on a 16" barrel and nicely accurate 6.5 Grendel AR-15)

Burris XTR3i 3.3-18x50 (off the gun for some side-by-side comparisons, but will likely end up on a 22-250 Tikka T3x) https://alnk.to/hDrtPpr
Telson Toxin 3-18x50 (no host gun yet, but an accurate 5.56 AR-15 built around an 18" WOA barrel is the likeliest candidate)
Vortex Razor HD-LHT 4.5-22x50 (currently on a 6.5PRC boltgun set-up for factory NRL Hunter competition) https://alnk.to/gVMrU9R
Leupold Mark 4HD 4.5-18x52 (it has been on a bunch of different guns; not sure what will be the final destination) https://alnk.to/7qlwW73

Delta Stryker 3.5-21x44 (found a home on a 22" 224Valkyrie gas gun for now; technically, this gun can carry a larger optic and it might) https://annexdefense.com/optics-and-optic-accessories/delta-optics/
Tangent Theta TT315M 3-15x50 (spent most of its career with me on an accurate 6.5Grendel, but is currently on a M28-76 Mosin) https://alnk.to/4XwVcHA

There are probably others in the safe I am not thinking of at the moment and there will be a few of the new ones added to the stable later this year. 

 If you've got an accurate small frame AR with a 16" to 20" accurate barrel and you like stretching the range of your gas gun, one of these is your best option.  I happen to like relatively light weight accurate ARs, so with any of the scopes above, I can have a nicely accurate 1000yard capable gas gun that clocks in under 10lbs with a bipod).  I really should continue with the whole "Guns of the Dark Lord" series, now that I think about it.  With the advent of new and exceptionally well-made "small large frame" guns, this category is really alive and well.  

 On up from there are the 5-25x56, 4.5-30x56, 7-35x56, etc full size precision scopes.  That's what you put on an accurate semi-auto that you do not plan to lug around much or at all.

 The latter is not my favourite category.  I have one like this.  It is a large frame AR-10 type gun built around a heavy Dracos 243Win barrel that was an old experiment.  It is around 13lbs before optics.  I am currently using it to finish testing Delta Javelin 4.5-30x56.  I am not carrying this thing anywhere unless there is a real probability that I will need to club someone with this thing.  Then, it is awesome.  The original idea behind that gun was to make a semi-auto long range varminter, so it is a 1-9" twist barrel and I have no intention of walking far with it.  I also have no intention of building anything along these lines again.  If I want a heavy precision gun, it will be a bolt action.

 

To cap it all off: figure out what you want to do, then set up a gun and optic for it.  Given how many options we have, there is no need to overthink it.  If you want to go fast, get a red dot or similar.  If you want to shoot far from within 50 yards of the truck, get a full size 56mm precision scope.  If you want to hike around and shoot far, get a crossover 50mm design.  If it is a dedicated DMR type, an MPVO with a red dot is your best bet.  If you have no idea what this is for, get the nicest LPVO you can afford.

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AR-15 Handguards with integrated Arca rail

I had a couple of ARs I wanted to set up for long range training. There is more to do with them, but I started out by swapping out the handguards for models with an integrated full length Arca rail. Larger flat on the bottom of the handguard helps it settle on the sandbag and makes it easier to shoot off of a tripod. I also found the ability to slide the bipod to different positions occasionally helpful.

The two handguards I have been testing are:

Fast Track my Catalyst Arms: https://www.anarchyoutdoors.com/fast-track-arca-precision-rifle-handguard-ar-15-rpr-only/?ref=fl0iza41

IWI/CMT HDM https://alnk.to/8iWcTQE

Both work well once installed, but IWI/CMT was ultimately less of a hassle to get properly lined up.

Fasttrack barrel nut arrangement is a little goofy and getting properly lined up took some trial and error. Here is the video they made that shows how it is set up. I was going to do my own, but once I got it all aligned, I did not want to mess with taking it up and ...

00:19:29
Burris XTR PS Wrap-Up

The first Burris XTR PS scope I got my hands on landed here in the beginning of March.
That means I have been messing with this design for a bit under four months. That does not quite qualify as a long term test by my standards, but it is a fair amount of time and quite a few rounds shot, mostly 5.56 and 308.
I have both of the models of XTR PS and both work well.
https://alnk.to/3U3cZEC

For matches and such, I would lean toward the 5.5-30x56 version, but for general purpose use, the smaller 3.3-18x50 model does have an edge. You can shoot a match with it, take it hunting in the mountains or slap a thermal clip-on in front to go shoot some pigs. While not light weight, it is a very flexible design owing to moderate size and mid-pack magnification range.

As I said in the video, I think XTR PS is a meaningful step forward in simplifying how we shoot at distance.

I will provide occasional updates as I continue using the scope.

00:26:02
5x Prismatic Wrap-up

This is not the end of my commentary on 5x prismatics, but it is a wrap for an unintentionally very long term project I had. I spent an unhealthy amount of time evaluating these four prismatic riflescopes:
Element Immersive 5x30 https://alnk.to/gzXEPUr
Swampfox Sabre 5x36 https://alnk.to/aAPTubq
Vortex Spitfire Gen2 5x https://alnk.to/3co4hVD
Primary Arms SLx 5x https://alnk.to/2jOhnT7

Two are large prism designs. Two are small prism designs.

The order in which I list them above corresponds to the image quality, from best to worst, although there isn't a ton of difference between SLx and Spitfire Gen2. Purely on the merits of resolution, Sabre is comparable to them as well, but much wider FOV and forgiving eyebox does put it a step above in terms of performance (at the expense of about a pound of weight). Element Immersive 5x30 is a different beast optically and it should be at a higher price at which it sells. It resolves better, has higher contrast and widest FOV of the bunch. Side-focus adds ...

00:16:40

Leupold Scope dump at CDNN.

I just got an email, multiple models and reticles for 3HD, 4HD and 5HD scopes. You need call to get prices.

https://www.cdnnsports.com/optics.html?manufacturer=LEUPOLD

Independence Day, 2025

Publishing a "Happy Independence Day!" a day after independence day is probably bad form. It is also bad for posting affiliate links. Everybody and their grandmother is having discounts and I am not posting any links. To be honest, I do not particularly like posting general links and I simply did not have time to dig through everything and come with specific product links.
Still, if you plan to be buying something from one of the retailers I have an affiliate account with, I would appreciate it if you were to start with one of my links listed in the FAQ: https://darklordofoptics.locals.com/faq

I started writing the more substantive part of this post yesterday, but got sidetracked with thinking about the origin of the ideas that make America and ran out of time. I was only able to get back to it now. I suppose, better late than never.

We live in the world that, as far as the details go, is dramatically different from the world of the founders of the United States.

For the majority of this ...

July 04, 2025

This is a good deal:

https://alnk.to/c0a5bf9

Scoping Gas Guns
an interesting question that acme in via PM

I received this question via a private message and thought it was interesting enough to answer it in some detail.  I have been thinking a lot about appropriate optics for gas guns recently, so this came it at the right time.

 

Here is what I ahve been messing with last few days:

 

Above: 18" WOA barrel 5.56 AR-15 with Burris XTR PS 5.5-30x56 on it.

Below: 22" Satern barrel 224Valkyrie AR-15 with Delta Stryker 3.5-21x44 on it.


For obvious reasons, I am not posting who asked the question, but what I'll do is send him a link to this article, so that he gets an answer and we might have a good discussion.
Here is what I received:

Had a question for you
I have a Knights Armament SR25 6.5CM with a 14.5" barrel - I plan on shooting 100 - 600 yards at targets at 100 yd intervals
I am favoring the TT 315P with an Aimpont Acro mounted on top -( see you liked the TT315M) - would that be enough magnification?
I saw the SB SB 5-20 which offer more top end - I like the turrets on the Tanget and tooless Zero - what are your thoughts between the 2?
If I stayed 400 and under - how do you see the TT315P with the Acro Red dot against the SB 1-8 Short Dot (saw your review on that)

There isn't really enough information in the question for a simple answer, so let's consider a couple of options.

What is the gun for? 

For shooting medium range (out to 600) with occasional close range use?  If yes, go with a conventional scope and offset or piggybacked RDS.

For shooting at close distance with occasional med/long range use? If yes, so with a nice LPVO like the above mentioned S&B Short Dot 1-8x24 https://alnk.to/3J8vlFv.  It is quite capable at long range, but where it will really knock your socks off is up close and personal.

The question of what is enough magnification is pretty personal.  For me, 3-15x is plenty, but I shoot a lot off of the tripod and off of barricades which likely influences my decision.  For that, my 3-15x50 TT315M Tangent works great and 6mrad of elevation is plenty.  https://alnk.to/gVNkUXB  175gr #08 out of a shoter tube will drop in the 5 to 5.5mrad range at 600 yards.

For a dedicated long range semi-auto, other than the looks, there isn't much downside to a larger scope, which is why I set up Burris' XTR PS on the 5.56 AR pictured above.  It is for my son to learn to shoot at distance and to us in next year's BOTC match.  https://alnk.to/gp33YuR

If I were setting up an accurate semi-auto and wanted a high mag scope for it, I would likely lean toward March 4.5-28x52. https://alnk.to/dLjHgjh  It is compact, relatively light and very good optically for any use other than the dead of the night (for which we should be using clip-ons anyway).

S&B Short Dot is a very nice scope, but March is a newer design and, other than the lowest light, has an edge in terms of image fidelity and stray light control.

TT315P Tangent is a veyr ncie scope and toolles turrets are appealing.  However, there is a weight penalty to that.  For me, that was not worth it.  I ahve 5-25x56 and 7-35x Tangents and those toolless turrets are spectacular.  However, in a 3-15x50, I am quit ecomfortable with simpler 6mrad per turn knobs on the TT315M.

 

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A morning with a chronograph

When I tell people that I am using Hornady's factory ammo for matches, I get occasionally surprised looks.  Occasionally.  Most of the time, I get fairly condescending looks from handloaders who would not let a factory round pollute the chambers of their precision rifles if their lives depended on it.

To be fair, if I had the time, I might be reloading as well.  I might be able to do better than modern factory ammo, but the truth is that I am not a quarter MOA shooter, so a lot of that would be lost on me.  The UKD matches I fidn most interesting can be done by a competent shooter with a 1MOA gun.  I am working on that first part.  I reload when I have to, but if I can get factory ammo that's not outrageously expensive and that shoots well, I will go with that every time.

I looked around and realized that I have about 600 rounds of Hornady 147gr 6.5CM factory ammo from two lots.  400 rounds from one that I will use during the match later this month.  The remainder I will likely use up practicing prior to that.

I woke up early and snuck out to the range while my family was still asleep earlier today.

I set up in the 100 yard tunnel we have.  I took my four shots to zero with the lot I plan to use for the match.  Then I fired a six shot ~0.7MOA group.  That's accurate enough for my purposes.

Here are the chronograph results:

It is slow, but accurate and consistent.

Then I shot a five round group of Hornady 147gr ammo from the other lot.

Both of those lots are not too shabby for factory ammo.  POI was within 0.2mrad between the two lots, all laterally.  

 

I had some other ammo on hand, so I fired two five shot groups with Berger 144gr hybrid target ammo and Sako TRG 136gr.

Here is what I got for five rounds of Berger:

That's not a ton of statistics, but it is a data point.  The group was ~1.1MOA

 

Here the data for the Sako TRG 136gr ammo:

This ammo showed some mild pressure signs, but not too significant.  

Again, this is not a ton of data, but Hornady is looking pretty decent here.

I'll repeat the zero retention and consistency tests a couple more times between now and June 18th when we head to Wyoming.

I might pick up a couple more boxes of Hornady 147gr from a different lot to get some more data.

More to come.

 

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First PRS Match is behind me
High Noon at Del Norte

My first PRS match is officially behind me.  It was, I think an officially sanctioned regional PRS match at the shooting range called Del Norte about an hour from me (just east of Rio Rancho).
As I discussed previously, rather than using the rifle I originally prepared for it, I ended up having to change gears at the last moment and slapping a 5-25x56 Tangent on my daughter's 6ARC MiniFIx.  A lightweight 16" Proof barreled 6ARC is not an ideal set up for PRS competition, but, in the grand scheme of things, the rifle did hot hold me back at all.  I had a couple of weights that fit the Q-cert handguard, so I slapped them on there as well, which got the rifle to right around 12lbs.  The balance point was almost where I want it, but not quite.  In all other ways, this was a very handy rifle to shoot.  I am actually thinking of getting a couple more weights that I can stack on it (Sawtooth weights are stackable), so that I can shoot some future local matches with it.  It shoots Hornady's Black 105gr ammo very well (it also shoots 108gr ELD-M and 103gr ELD-X well, but I had a larger supply of Hornady Black ammo on hand).

It chrono'ed pretty consistently for factory ammo.  Here are the measurements for a 20 shot group.

If I were to take out the fastest shot, SD drops down to 8fps.  

In terms of wind performance, it is a 5mph rifle, so slightly better than the 308 ammo I was going to use originally, but not as good as the 6.5CM that was my intended match rifle for this year (we make plans, but then life happens).

I do have to admit that I really enjoyed shooting the match with the MiniFix.  So much so, that I am seriously thinking of building another one for myself, since this rifle is technically my daughter's.

The closest shot we had was a bit over a couple of hundred yards.  The furthest was around 1150.  That was a bit challenging for the 16" barreled 6ARC, especially since the terrain there is tricky and wind is doing strange things.  Morning was relatively quiet wind-wise, but then the wind becamse gusty with changing directions.

It was a one day match with about 30 shooters (six squads) and ten stages.  The 17 year old kid who won the match was in my squad with his dad.  Apparently he is on the US team, so it should not be surrpising that he won.  He was very good.

Overall level of the shooters in the match was quite good.  I really was not sure what to expect.  Somewhat paradoxically, the only matches that I have shot in so far are the much larger two day NRL Hunter matches.  In those, I am just out of the bottom third in terms of skill level.  In this match, it was pretty much in the same spot, I think.  

The terrain was a little bit like Cameo, I think (I have been there, but not shot there), with some angle changes and sufficient vegetation to make getting on target occasionally troublesome. 

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