DarkLordOfOptics
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Prismatic Magnification

As this is written, I am firmly ensconced at the Raasay distillery on the Island of Raasay among the Inner Hebrides islands off the western coast of Scotland. I got lucky with the weather and this place is absolutely unbelievable. Some of the most beautiful views I have seen to date and incredible hospitality where I am staying.
What do you think is on my mind among all this beauty and hospitality? Well, mostly the fact that I miss my family. They are half way around the world. The original plan was to bring them here with me, but due to unforeseen circumstances it was not in the cards this year.
While that is what I am mostly thinking about, the issue of prismatic magnification is still lingering in the OCD dominated parts of my brain, so let's get it out.
I went and looked a little bit at FOVs and size and weight of what's out there. I also went and looked at the FOVs of different thermal clip-ons since that also makes a difference.
The FOVs of thermal clip-ons I have looked at in the last couple of years varied from about 6 degrees to 17 degrees and almost everything in between.

That is not hugely helpful, but if we assume you are willing to lose some thermal FOV when using a thermal monocular as a clip-on, we can narrow it down to the range of 6 degrees to 9 degrees. That gives you roughly QVGA pixel counts when in front of a scope with most configurations.
Let's look at how that matches to the FOVs of common modern prismatics that I have been discussing over the last however many months.

Compact 3x prismatics from PA, Burris and Vortex are in the 7.2 to 7.4 degree range.

SwampFox Trihawk is a large prism design so it has 3x FOV of nearly 10 degrees.

ACOG 4x32, crappy eye relief and all, has 7 degree FOV.

Elcan OS 4x that is arguably my primary prismatic to date, has 6 degree FOV and weighs right around 17 ounces with the mounts.

Large prism 5x Saber from SwampFox is almost 6 degrees as well and ~25 ounces with an integrated mount.

The new 5x30 prismatic from Element should be a bit less than that, but likely close to 5.5-6 degrees and about the same weight with the mount. I think the Element might be the best one optically this side of an Elcan, but I will withhold judgement until I get a full production model here. It does have the best reticle of the bunch, of course (not that I would be biased about that, of course).

With small prism 5x scopes like Burris RT-5, PA SLx 5x and Vortex Spitfire Gen2, the FOV drops down to ~4 to 4.3 degree range, so performance with a thermal clip-on begins to suffer.

With 6x prismatics, we do not have a whole lot of reasonable datapoints, but PA has introduced a fairly compact 6x magnifier as did Vortex. A magnifier is essentially a prismatic scope without a reticle. Both of those have FOVs of just under 4 degrees. That's pretty usable, but not great with a clip-on.

I hope you are still with me after this entire stream of numerical unconsciousness.

There are a few things we can draw from this. One is that if you can bear the weight and plan to use a thermal clip-on, a large prism design might be worthwhile.

If you want magnification, a larger prism design with magnification of more than 5x will get a little unwieldy, unless you go with an ultrashort eyerelief scope. Those do have their place, but mostly on airguns. Element has a few coming up and I might look at them. Until then, large prism 5x designs are about as heavy as I'd want to go.

Even when at the same weight as an LPVO, prismatics do handle better simply because the weight is a bit further back. This handling advantage is further extended when working with a clip-on. It ends up being a lot closer to you. With a clip-on like Burris BTC-50 that has a rear-biased mount, I can fit both the prismatic and the clip-on on the upper receiver without touching the handguard (picture attached).

Where does that leave us? If compatibility with thermals is important stick with 3x or 4x prismatics, preferably with large prisms.

That gets you a lot of capability in a comparatively compact package.

Looking at FOVs of high quality LPVOs, like SAI6 1-6x24, it turns out that small prism scopes like the micro 3x and 5x prisms give you similar FOV to LPVOs, but for less money and weight.

Large prism designs, get you a wider and more immersive FOV than an LPVOs at the same magnification but weight becomes comparable (that will all change if I convince someone to make me an LPVO for ARs only with consistent 2.2" FOV).

This is where you have to be clear with what you are looking to do.

If for you this is a choice between an LPVO and a prismatic and you are looking to save some money, get a large prism 4x or 5x design. You will have an excellent experience with the image, wide FOV and reasonable compatibility with thermals. You might even be able to get away with the new 5x designs. I certainly plan to give them a shot. Once the 5x scopes from Element get here, you'll understand why.

If LPVO is not in the cards because of weight concerns, but you need some magnification, 3x scopes are looking good. Again, you retain good compatibility with thermals and add significant ability to positively ID and engage targets at distance at very low weight.

Small prism 5x designs are not a lot bigger and if you do not care about clip-ons they have their place. They are less expensive and lighter than LPVOs. What gives me a little bit of a pause is that I am clearly more comfortable shooting offhand on 3x than on 5x. Interestingly, larger prism 5x scopes mitigate that to a good degree with larger eyebox and massive FOV.

Is there such a thing as a medium prism design? It is not like there are only two prism sizes out there. Well, Elcan 4x I have is sorta that. If it had an adjustable eyepiece, it would eventually end up buried with me right next to the 3-15x50 Tangent Theta (there must be something in the water in Canada). The optics on that thing are glorious.

The truth is that there is only so much FOV I am willing to give up for magnification. With LPVOs, I can always turn the magnification down, but with a prismatic, I'd rather err on the side of keeping the FOV even if that means a little less magnification or a little more weight.

I wonder if I can get someone to make me a dual power 2.5x/6x prismatic....

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Primary Arms HTX-1 US Made red dot sight

I've had this RDS for a bit over two months now and I am beyond pleased with it.
Despite some spirited abuse, it keeps soldiering on.
https://alnk.to/1C9z5dw
It is a very nice RDS and being fully made in the US does not hurt either.

00:13:03
Delta Stryker 3.5-21x44 Wrap-up

This scope comes up a lot since I really like the configuration. It is time to do a final wrap-up of it.

It is one of my favourite scopes on the market today, especially for the money, since I naturally lean toward general purpose-ish designs. Still, while the 3.5-21x44 Stryker is relatively compact and light, it still clearly leans toward the precision side of things, which suites me very well.

https://annexdefense.com/optics-and-optic-accessories/delta-optics/

00:10:25
The 40s: SwampFox Recce MRAD Reticle in Warhwak 2-10x44

As is usually the case, I am taking my sweet time with the 40s comparison. There are several reasons for that. One is that I am busy. Another is that I really like this very underappreciated riflescope category and want to make sure I am doing the right thing with them. Yet another is a simple fact that I insist that I spend a LOT of time with each scope before I can recommend it and there are quite a few scopes to look at for this comparison.

Swampfox Warhawk 2-10x44 is sort of an odd duck here in many way. In terms of magnification range and objective size, it is right at home in this lineup. However, it is a bit big and heavy for the mag range at just under 13" and just under 30 ounces of weight. It has a lot of adjustment range at 35mrad, but has no zero stop. On the other hand...

It is sub-$500.
It has very good Apparent FOV at 24 degrees.
It is a lot better optically than I expected.
It has a very solid reticle with a clever illumination scheme.

The way this scope is set ...

00:08:40
Well, imagine THAT....

I wonder if all of the Youtube frauds who spent the last few weeks shamelessly lying for clicks are going to go apologize to Sig now.

https://taskandpurpose.com/news/air-force-m18-arrest/

Area 419 and Odinworks Muzzlebrakes raffle

Just a reminder: on Tuesday, August 12th at around 7pm, Aaron and I will go over out impressions from the TRT Sniper Challenge in a bit more detail. We have the course of fire, so we'll go over how the stages were set up and the challenges presented by this rather unusual (by my standards match).

Somewhere half way through the livestream, I will raffle off a couple of items I picked up off of the prize table.

One is the Area 419 Hellfire Competition brake.

The other is a tunable brake from Odinworks.

The pictures for both are attached.

In order to enter the raffle, you have to be a member of this community (darklordofoptics.locals.com). You do not have to be a paying supporter. A free account is enough for this.

If you would like to enter the raffle, send me an email with the following information:
-the item you are going for (Area419 or Odinworks)
-your username from this Locals community

send the email to [email protected]

I will accept entries until ~8PM on ...

Some Photos from TRT Sniper Challenge

I'll be adding more pictures to that album as I go along.

For the livestream on August 12th when we do the raffle for the muzzle brakes, Aaron from Anarchy Outdoors will join me to discuss the match and lessons learned in more detail.

We are looking to get a copy of the course of fire from one of the organizers of the match, so the plan is to provide as much information on how the match was set up as we can.

https://opticsthoughts.smugmug.com/Matches/2025TRT/n-kTz7DQ

post photo preview
Steiner C35 Gen2 Mount
from Annex Defense

The production version of the Annex Defense's mount for the Steiner C35 Gen2 thermal Clip-on is finally here.  At $1600 (when this is published), the clip-on is an absolute steal.

I've had it for a few days, but, me being the good old paranoid me, I spent some time shooting with it before posting anything.  I had a couple of days with it prior to last weekend's match in Montana and a couple of days after.  Another to pop it on and off a few times and get a couple of hundred rounds of 6.5Grendel through the gun to see if anything shakes loose.  So far so good.

The C35 Gen2 clip-on is sitting on my 6.5Grendel AR as a part of a long running "Only One" project that I have.  It pairs perfectly with the Steiner H6Xi 2-12x42 scope.

Here is what comes in the box from Annex Defense:

The order in which the whole thing comes togethe is pretty stragihtforward:

-slide the thermal washer onto the threaded interface extending out of the back of the clip-on

-spin the mount itself onto the threaded interface (the mount is threaded on the inside) until it can go no further

-rotate the mount so that the clip-on is properly lined up to the picatinny clamp

-once you are happy with the alignment, use the three nylon tipped set screws (you'll need an allen wrench for that) to lock in the position of the clip-on in the mount.  You need very little torque on the set screws.  They are there for one reason and one reason only: to keep the mount from spinning when you tighten the timing nut in the next step

-spin the timing nut onto the threaded interface of the clip-on to lock the mount in place.  You should not need the timing nut wrench, but one is in there just in case.

Here are the pieces laid out in the order in which you will need them.

When you are done, it should look like this:

Note that the mount normaly comes with two T20 screws.  I am using two thumbscrews instead, since I am popping the mount on and off all the time.  It seems to be staying put with the thumbscrews just fine.  I am hoping Annex will offer the thumbscrews as an option.

It is not quite an equivalent of a QD mount, but we needed something with an extremely low profile clamp to fit under scopes with fairly large objectives.  As is, the mount works with most scope that have objective lens diameter of 50mm or less.

I am using with with Steiner H6Xi 2-12x42 and the two work together exceedingly well.

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Scoping Gas Guns
an interesting question that acme in via PM

I received this question via a private message and thought it was interesting enough to answer it in some detail.  I have been thinking a lot about appropriate optics for gas guns recently, so this came it at the right time.

 

Here is what I ahve been messing with last few days:

 

Above: 18" WOA barrel 5.56 AR-15 with Burris XTR PS 5.5-30x56 on it.

Below: 22" Satern barrel 224Valkyrie AR-15 with Delta Stryker 3.5-21x44 on it.


For obvious reasons, I am not posting who asked the question, but what I'll do is send him a link to this article, so that he gets an answer and we might have a good discussion.
Here is what I received:

Had a question for you
I have a Knights Armament SR25 6.5CM with a 14.5" barrel - I plan on shooting 100 - 600 yards at targets at 100 yd intervals
I am favoring the TT 315P with an Aimpont Acro mounted on top -( see you liked the TT315M) - would that be enough magnification?
I saw the SB SB 5-20 which offer more top end - I like the turrets on the Tanget and tooless Zero - what are your thoughts between the 2?
If I stayed 400 and under - how do you see the TT315P with the Acro Red dot against the SB 1-8 Short Dot (saw your review on that)

There isn't really enough information in the question for a simple answer, so let's consider a couple of options.

What is the gun for? 

For shooting medium range (out to 600) with occasional close range use?  If yes, go with a conventional scope and offset or piggybacked RDS.

For shooting at close distance with occasional med/long range use? If yes, so with a nice LPVO like the above mentioned S&B Short Dot 1-8x24 https://alnk.to/3J8vlFv.  It is quite capable at long range, but where it will really knock your socks off is up close and personal.

The question of what is enough magnification is pretty personal.  For me, 3-15x is plenty, but I shoot a lot off of the tripod and off of barricades which likely influences my decision.  For that, my 3-15x50 TT315M Tangent works great and 6mrad of elevation is plenty.  https://alnk.to/gVNkUXB  175gr #08 out of a shoter tube will drop in the 5 to 5.5mrad range at 600 yards.

For a dedicated long range semi-auto, other than the looks, there isn't much downside to a larger scope, which is why I set up Burris' XTR PS on the 5.56 AR pictured above.  It is for my son to learn to shoot at distance and to us in next year's BOTC match.  https://alnk.to/gp33YuR

If I were setting up an accurate semi-auto and wanted a high mag scope for it, I would likely lean toward March 4.5-28x52. https://alnk.to/dLjHgjh  It is compact, relatively light and very good optically for any use other than the dead of the night (for which we should be using clip-ons anyway).

S&B Short Dot is a very nice scope, but March is a newer design and, other than the lowest light, has an edge in terms of image fidelity and stray light control.

TT315P Tangent is a veyr ncie scope and toolles turrets are appealing.  However, there is a weight penalty to that.  For me, that was not worth it.  I ahve 5-25x56 and 7-35x Tangents and those toolless turrets are spectacular.  However, in a 3-15x50, I am quit ecomfortable with simpler 6mrad per turn knobs on the TT315M.

 

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A morning with a chronograph

When I tell people that I am using Hornady's factory ammo for matches, I get occasionally surprised looks.  Occasionally.  Most of the time, I get fairly condescending looks from handloaders who would not let a factory round pollute the chambers of their precision rifles if their lives depended on it.

To be fair, if I had the time, I might be reloading as well.  I might be able to do better than modern factory ammo, but the truth is that I am not a quarter MOA shooter, so a lot of that would be lost on me.  The UKD matches I fidn most interesting can be done by a competent shooter with a 1MOA gun.  I am working on that first part.  I reload when I have to, but if I can get factory ammo that's not outrageously expensive and that shoots well, I will go with that every time.

I looked around and realized that I have about 600 rounds of Hornady 147gr 6.5CM factory ammo from two lots.  400 rounds from one that I will use during the match later this month.  The remainder I will likely use up practicing prior to that.

I woke up early and snuck out to the range while my family was still asleep earlier today.

I set up in the 100 yard tunnel we have.  I took my four shots to zero with the lot I plan to use for the match.  Then I fired a six shot ~0.7MOA group.  That's accurate enough for my purposes.

Here are the chronograph results:

It is slow, but accurate and consistent.

Then I shot a five round group of Hornady 147gr ammo from the other lot.

Both of those lots are not too shabby for factory ammo.  POI was within 0.2mrad between the two lots, all laterally.  

 

I had some other ammo on hand, so I fired two five shot groups with Berger 144gr hybrid target ammo and Sako TRG 136gr.

Here is what I got for five rounds of Berger:

That's not a ton of statistics, but it is a data point.  The group was ~1.1MOA

 

Here the data for the Sako TRG 136gr ammo:

This ammo showed some mild pressure signs, but not too significant.  

Again, this is not a ton of data, but Hornady is looking pretty decent here.

I'll repeat the zero retention and consistency tests a couple more times between now and June 18th when we head to Wyoming.

I might pick up a couple more boxes of Hornady 147gr from a different lot to get some more data.

More to come.

 

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