DarkLordOfOptics
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Guns, Optics, 2nd Amendment and resisting the Left in everything they touch.
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What's the application?

This is a subject I cover with reasonable regularity, but it has been a while, so it is worth bringing up for a minute again.
During a discussion elsewhere, someone asked where he should go for a Athlon Ares ETR 1-10x24 (https://bit.ly/3p1uOSU) or Vortex PST Gen2 2-10x32.
It is my favourite kind of question because there essentially not information given on what it would be used for, on what gun, etc.
Now, apparently, there was an earlier discussion that I missed that specified what the gun was and what it was going to be used for. Still, I did not know that at the time, which created a perfect opportunity to be an arrogant sanctimonious prick for a few minutes whether justified or not.
In the end, I ended up recommending Vortex PST Gen II 3-15x42.
How did we get get from here to there? That is really the important question. What specifically I recommend is perhaps less critical, but how we arrive at an appropriate selection is more interesting.
First of all, while what gun this optic is going on matters, it is more important what the targets are, how far away they will be and what lighting conditions you will be facing.
An LPVO (like the 1-10x24 mentioned above) is usually a good option when you are not exactly sure what you might be facing. Now, it is often a good option when you need to engage man-size targets from up close and personal on out to 500- 800 yards. Sometimes further, but LPVOs are essentially about flexibility. Now, the Ares ETR happens to be a very nice scope, but it is not ideal on 1x due to illumination not being ideal for that. It is also not light, but it is currently the highest quality LPVO made in China. Ultimately, Ares ETR scopes are more expensive and higher quality than Vortex PST Gen2 scopes.
However, the question was about the 2-10x32 PST Gen2 and it is really not an apples to apples comparison because the objective lens diameters are different and because one goes down to 1x. Both make a difference.

The way the question was asked was, unintentionally I am sure, virtually designed to set me off: "trying to decide between two scopes. Very comparable, but one is a 34mm body with 24mm obj. The other is a 30mm body with 32mm objective. What will be the performance differences between the two scopes? Would a mediocre shooter like me notice the differences anyway?"

First of all, let's do away with the mediocre shooter part: that provides no useful information since mediocre means different things to different people. Either way, it makes no difference whatsoever on scope selection. With gun people, most of the time when people say they are mediocre shooters it is one of two things:
-false modesty where everyone knows they are pretty good, so this is sort of a cute way of saying "I know I am good, but it would be impolite to point it out"
-they hang out with pretty exalted company. For example, I always say that I am not a very good shot. Compared to an average gun owner, that is not really true. However, I likely have unreasonably high standards. While I do not exactly hang out with him, I have a fairy cordial relationship with David Tubb. Almost everyone is a piss poor shot compared to David. I am friendly with guys like Frank Galli, Phil Velayo, Caylen Wojcik and a few others. That's my yardstick and compared to them, I suck. However, without knowing that background, if I tell you that I am not a good shot, you will get a very wrong impression.

Then, there is the maintube diameter business: it is always worth repeating that the diameter of the scope is a consequence of what the scope designer was looking to do inside the scope. Sometimes you need the extra real estate. Sometimes you do not. As a consumer, you have not way of knowing which it is and it does not matter.

Tube diameter, by itself, SHOULD NOT BE A FACTOR IN CHOOSING A RIFLESCOPE. Unless, of course, you are compensating, then more power to you. I am sure IOR is planning a 50mm scope tube just for you.

Objective diameter, on the other hand, is a big deal. When I do scopes comparisons, I sort scopes primarily by objective diameter and only then by magnification and other characteristics.

How much light gets into a scope is proportional to the area of the objective lens. Assuming there is not addition exit pupil constriction, at the same magnification a 32mm objective scope has approximately 78% more light to work with than a 24mm one.

The flip side of the coin is that is you really need 1x, it is hard to do larger objectives, so you end up compromising.

What did I end up recommending? PST Gen II 3-15x44. While looking up prices to make sure I am not talking out of my ass, I also noticed that Europtic has the earlier EBR-2C reticle version of the 3-15x44 for under $600. At that price, it is an absolute steal: https://bit.ly/3k6wpWc

It turned out that the scope was going on an accurate AR intended for shooting at coyotes and varmints out to 300 yards, i.e. small targets that will occasionally be engaged in low light. For that, you need magnification and objective diameter. Now, I am not a magnification hog, so many of my scopes top out between 12x and 20x. However, even on 10x, it is much easier to use a scope with a 44mm objective than a 24mm objective. Exit pupil size makes all the difference in the world the moment the light levels get low.

For this application, having a scope go down to 1x offers no meaningful advantage unless the varmints you are after band into an army and mount an offensive campaign on your shooting position.

Is the Athlon Ares ETR 1-10x24 a nice scope? Yes. Is it a good scope for this application? No. Ares ETR 3-18x50 (https://bit.ly/3P4yzBO) would be quite appropriate, however, as would the new Element Titan 3-18x50 (https://bit.ly/3bBFfJP)

PST Gen2 2-10x32 is a decent enough scope, but it is heavy for its size
https://bit.ly/3vNSE8t

On top of that, within each scope line, not all scope are created equal and it so happens that with PST Gen2, the 3-15x44 is, I think, the best of that product line. It is notably larger than the 2-10x32, but it is better optically. They are obviously very similar in terms of mechanical quality, but here is the kicker: the weight is within two ounces.

Between the two, the only reason to go with the 2-10x32 would be if you want the scope to be shorter and/or if you really need 2x on the low end. That essentially means that if you plan to put a thermal clip-on, then 2-10x32 has some advantages. Barring that, the 3-15x44 is a no brainer https://bit.ly/3vKJpG6

Now, that gets us into the $1k range, so the next logical question is whether there is something less expensive I recommend that has a reasonable objective diameter, tops out at 10x or more and performs well.

There is and that comes out of the MPVO test I did recently: PA GLx 2.5-10x44 (https://bit.ly/3Q9zq5i) and Athlon Helos BTR Gen2 2-12x42 (https://bit.ly/3vNgH7s). If you can swing the more expensive stuff, it is worth it. If not, these do very well too.

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Vortex Defender XL Green

This is the second time Vortex' Defender XL crosses my path. I was very impressed with the original red dot version, so I was curious to see how the one with the green dot works for my eyes.
To get the details, see the attached video.
The cliff's notes version is that I am just as impressed with this one. In terms of collimation quality and parallax control, it is quite exceptional.
https://alnk.to/881BEV1

00:10:20
Primary Arms HTX-1 US Made red dot sight

I've had this RDS for a bit over two months now and I am beyond pleased with it.
Despite some spirited abuse, it keeps soldiering on.
https://alnk.to/1C9z5dw
It is a very nice RDS and being fully made in the US does not hurt either.

00:13:03
Delta Stryker 3.5-21x44 Wrap-up

This scope comes up a lot since I really like the configuration. It is time to do a final wrap-up of it.

It is one of my favourite scopes on the market today, especially for the money, since I naturally lean toward general purpose-ish designs. Still, while the 3.5-21x44 Stryker is relatively compact and light, it still clearly leans toward the precision side of things, which suites me very well.

https://annexdefense.com/optics-and-optic-accessories/delta-optics/

00:10:25
Had to switch to a different streaming service

Rumble Studio crapped out on me. so I hadd to stream using a different service

Well, imagine THAT....

I wonder if all of the Youtube frauds who spent the last few weeks shamelessly lying for clicks are going to go apologize to Sig now.

https://taskandpurpose.com/news/air-force-m18-arrest/

Area 419 and Odinworks Muzzlebrakes raffle

Just a reminder: on Tuesday, August 12th at around 7pm, Aaron and I will go over out impressions from the TRT Sniper Challenge in a bit more detail. We have the course of fire, so we'll go over how the stages were set up and the challenges presented by this rather unusual (by my standards match).

Somewhere half way through the livestream, I will raffle off a couple of items I picked up off of the prize table.

One is the Area 419 Hellfire Competition brake.

The other is a tunable brake from Odinworks.

The pictures for both are attached.

In order to enter the raffle, you have to be a member of this community (darklordofoptics.locals.com). You do not have to be a paying supporter. A free account is enough for this.

If you would like to enter the raffle, send me an email with the following information:
-the item you are going for (Area419 or Odinworks)
-your username from this Locals community

send the email to [email protected]

I will accept entries until ~8PM on ...

post photo preview
Steiner C35 Gen2 Mount
from Annex Defense

The production version of the Annex Defense's mount for the Steiner C35 Gen2 thermal Clip-on is finally here.  At $1600 (when this is published), the clip-on is an absolute steal.

I've had it for a few days, but, me being the good old paranoid me, I spent some time shooting with it before posting anything.  I had a couple of days with it prior to last weekend's match in Montana and a couple of days after.  Another to pop it on and off a few times and get a couple of hundred rounds of 6.5Grendel through the gun to see if anything shakes loose.  So far so good.

The C35 Gen2 clip-on is sitting on my 6.5Grendel AR as a part of a long running "Only One" project that I have.  It pairs perfectly with the Steiner H6Xi 2-12x42 scope.

Here is what comes in the box from Annex Defense:

The order in which the whole thing comes togethe is pretty stragihtforward:

-slide the thermal washer onto the threaded interface extending out of the back of the clip-on

-spin the mount itself onto the threaded interface (the mount is threaded on the inside) until it can go no further

-rotate the mount so that the clip-on is properly lined up to the picatinny clamp

-once you are happy with the alignment, use the three nylon tipped set screws (you'll need an allen wrench for that) to lock in the position of the clip-on in the mount.  You need very little torque on the set screws.  They are there for one reason and one reason only: to keep the mount from spinning when you tighten the timing nut in the next step

-spin the timing nut onto the threaded interface of the clip-on to lock the mount in place.  You should not need the timing nut wrench, but one is in there just in case.

Here are the pieces laid out in the order in which you will need them.

When you are done, it should look like this:

Note that the mount normaly comes with two T20 screws.  I am using two thumbscrews instead, since I am popping the mount on and off all the time.  It seems to be staying put with the thumbscrews just fine.  I am hoping Annex will offer the thumbscrews as an option.

It is not quite an equivalent of a QD mount, but we needed something with an extremely low profile clamp to fit under scopes with fairly large objectives.  As is, the mount works with most scope that have objective lens diameter of 50mm or less.

I am using with with Steiner H6Xi 2-12x42 and the two work together exceedingly well.

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Scoping Gas Guns
an interesting question that acme in via PM

I received this question via a private message and thought it was interesting enough to answer it in some detail.  I have been thinking a lot about appropriate optics for gas guns recently, so this came it at the right time.

 

Here is what I ahve been messing with last few days:

 

Above: 18" WOA barrel 5.56 AR-15 with Burris XTR PS 5.5-30x56 on it.

Below: 22" Satern barrel 224Valkyrie AR-15 with Delta Stryker 3.5-21x44 on it.


For obvious reasons, I am not posting who asked the question, but what I'll do is send him a link to this article, so that he gets an answer and we might have a good discussion.
Here is what I received:

Had a question for you
I have a Knights Armament SR25 6.5CM with a 14.5" barrel - I plan on shooting 100 - 600 yards at targets at 100 yd intervals
I am favoring the TT 315P with an Aimpont Acro mounted on top -( see you liked the TT315M) - would that be enough magnification?
I saw the SB SB 5-20 which offer more top end - I like the turrets on the Tanget and tooless Zero - what are your thoughts between the 2?
If I stayed 400 and under - how do you see the TT315P with the Acro Red dot against the SB 1-8 Short Dot (saw your review on that)

There isn't really enough information in the question for a simple answer, so let's consider a couple of options.

What is the gun for? 

For shooting medium range (out to 600) with occasional close range use?  If yes, go with a conventional scope and offset or piggybacked RDS.

For shooting at close distance with occasional med/long range use? If yes, so with a nice LPVO like the above mentioned S&B Short Dot 1-8x24 https://alnk.to/3J8vlFv.  It is quite capable at long range, but where it will really knock your socks off is up close and personal.

The question of what is enough magnification is pretty personal.  For me, 3-15x is plenty, but I shoot a lot off of the tripod and off of barricades which likely influences my decision.  For that, my 3-15x50 TT315M Tangent works great and 6mrad of elevation is plenty.  https://alnk.to/gVNkUXB  175gr #08 out of a shoter tube will drop in the 5 to 5.5mrad range at 600 yards.

For a dedicated long range semi-auto, other than the looks, there isn't much downside to a larger scope, which is why I set up Burris' XTR PS on the 5.56 AR pictured above.  It is for my son to learn to shoot at distance and to us in next year's BOTC match.  https://alnk.to/gp33YuR

If I were setting up an accurate semi-auto and wanted a high mag scope for it, I would likely lean toward March 4.5-28x52. https://alnk.to/dLjHgjh  It is compact, relatively light and very good optically for any use other than the dead of the night (for which we should be using clip-ons anyway).

S&B Short Dot is a very nice scope, but March is a newer design and, other than the lowest light, has an edge in terms of image fidelity and stray light control.

TT315P Tangent is a veyr ncie scope and toolles turrets are appealing.  However, there is a weight penalty to that.  For me, that was not worth it.  I ahve 5-25x56 and 7-35x Tangents and those toolless turrets are spectacular.  However, in a 3-15x50, I am quit ecomfortable with simpler 6mrad per turn knobs on the TT315M.

 

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A morning with a chronograph

When I tell people that I am using Hornady's factory ammo for matches, I get occasionally surprised looks.  Occasionally.  Most of the time, I get fairly condescending looks from handloaders who would not let a factory round pollute the chambers of their precision rifles if their lives depended on it.

To be fair, if I had the time, I might be reloading as well.  I might be able to do better than modern factory ammo, but the truth is that I am not a quarter MOA shooter, so a lot of that would be lost on me.  The UKD matches I fidn most interesting can be done by a competent shooter with a 1MOA gun.  I am working on that first part.  I reload when I have to, but if I can get factory ammo that's not outrageously expensive and that shoots well, I will go with that every time.

I looked around and realized that I have about 600 rounds of Hornady 147gr 6.5CM factory ammo from two lots.  400 rounds from one that I will use during the match later this month.  The remainder I will likely use up practicing prior to that.

I woke up early and snuck out to the range while my family was still asleep earlier today.

I set up in the 100 yard tunnel we have.  I took my four shots to zero with the lot I plan to use for the match.  Then I fired a six shot ~0.7MOA group.  That's accurate enough for my purposes.

Here are the chronograph results:

It is slow, but accurate and consistent.

Then I shot a five round group of Hornady 147gr ammo from the other lot.

Both of those lots are not too shabby for factory ammo.  POI was within 0.2mrad between the two lots, all laterally.  

 

I had some other ammo on hand, so I fired two five shot groups with Berger 144gr hybrid target ammo and Sako TRG 136gr.

Here is what I got for five rounds of Berger:

That's not a ton of statistics, but it is a data point.  The group was ~1.1MOA

 

Here the data for the Sako TRG 136gr ammo:

This ammo showed some mild pressure signs, but not too significant.  

Again, this is not a ton of data, but Hornady is looking pretty decent here.

I'll repeat the zero retention and consistency tests a couple more times between now and June 18th when we head to Wyoming.

I might pick up a couple more boxes of Hornady 147gr from a different lot to get some more data.

More to come.

 

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